Angle for warmup/ARC wall?

Hi all,
I'm getting ready to build a home gym. I'm planning on getting a Tension board (angle will be adjustable). I also want to build a lower angle wall that would have three functions, in decreasing order of importance:
1) (the most important) warming up for a session on the Tension board or hangboard.
2) ARC sessions
3) my girls (9 and 5) could monkey around on it occasionally (i might just need to build a separate low angle wall for this) 
4) set a few crimpy problems in the spirit of the type of climbing frequently encountered around here, vertical (or less than vertical) face climbing on small holds.

What angle should I set the warm up wall at? 

I'd go with 25. (1) good angle for setting V1-5 (2) I'm rarely looking for fitness adaptations for stuff much less steep than that. (3) no real comments but probably pretty good with the right hold set.  (4) Unless you have a lot of dead vertical projects, you don't want to go less steep than that. It's generally best to train a little steeper than your goals with slightly better, less tweaky/friction dependent holds.

Just out of curiosity, why do you specifically want a Tension Board? In my experience, they’re not as “fun” as a Moon or Kilter board and are also generally harder. My experience has been that if something is difficult and enjoyable, then I’ll be back for more. If it’s just difficult, then that’s the end of it. The Tension Board seems like a rather niche training tool for the overly stoked. 

Jon Frisby wrote: I'd go with 25. (1) good angle for setting V1-5 (2) I'm rarely looking for fitness adaptations for stuff much less steep than that. (3) no real comments but probably pretty good with the right hold set.  (4) Unless you have a lot of dead vertical projects, you don't want to go less steep than that. It's generally best to train a little steeper than your goals with slightly better, less tweaky/friction dependent holds.

I was thinking of initially setting the Tension board at 20-25. Would that affect your recommendation, or would you just set the warmup wall with easier holds?

Justin Laursen wrote: Just out of curiosity, why do you specifically want a Tension Board? In my experience, they’re not as “fun” as a Moon or Kilter board and are also generally harder. My experience has been that if something is difficult and enjoyable, then I’ll be back for more. If it’s just difficult, then that’s the end of it. The Tension Board seems like a rather niche training tool for the overly stoked. 

Interesting. Not totally welded to the Tension but I've been on a Moon Board at 40 degrees and found it to be mostly too hard. It seemed like the Tension had a bit wider range of hold sizes, so I'd been thinking it might be a little friendlier? Again, I'd also at least initially be lowering the angle of whatever board it is.

Optimistic wrote:

I was thinking of initially setting the Tension board at 20-25. Would that affect your recommendation, or would you just set the warmup wall with easier holds?

Yeah maybe 15 deg in that case

Optimistic wrote:

Interesting. Not totally welded to the Tension but I've been on a Moon Board at 40 degrees and found it to be mostly too hard. It seemed like the Tension had a bit wider range of hold sizes, so I'd been thinking it might be a little friendlier? Again, I'd also at least initially be lowering the angle of whatever board it is.

I’m a new climber so I don’t know much but I’d vote tension board. The ability to reverse sides to discover/target weaknesses has been really nice, and the wood holds let you climb for longer without ripping skin. I also think it’s really fun, but I can see why some people prefer the moonboard. 

OP what grades do you generally climb outside? For a ARC wall I love 20* but depending on your fitness continuous climbing for 20 min on a 20* may be really hard. For reference I RP in the the 12+ to 13- range and it’s perfect.

Also, I have a tension board and will say it’s not as “fun” as a moon board but I think it’s a dramatically more effective training tool. But I don’t need my training to be “fun” to get myself to do it. If enjoying your workouts is important that I would really strive to try a few different boards to see which you enjoy more.

Heather S wrote:

I’m a new climber so I don’t know much but I’d vote tension board. The ability to reverse sides to discover/target weaknesses has been really nice, and the wood holds let you climb for longer without ripping skin. I also think it’s really fun, but I can see why some people prefer the moonboard. 

Do you use one pretty frequently?  Do you find there are decent offerings for problems in the v2-v5 (gym grades, which typically are pretty soft by outdoor standards)?  

Eric K wrote: OP what grades do you generally climb outside? For a ARC wall I love 20* but depending on your fitness continuous climbing for 20 min on a 20* may be really hard. For reference I RP in the the 12+ to 13- range and it’s perfect.

Also, I have a tension board and will say it’s not as “fun” as a moon board but I think it’s a dramatically more effective training tool. But I don’t need my training to be “fun” to get myself to do it. If enjoying your workouts is important that I would really strive to try a few different boards to see which you enjoy more.

Basically on a good day (not super common this year!) I shakily lead easy 10 trad.  The goal (I know it's humble) is just to be really solid on pretty much any trad 10.  I definitely can't be on a 20 degree wall for 20 minutes...although I could definitely see how that would be a handy capability when trying to fiddle in dinky cams on the aforementioned trad 10's.

Optimistic wrote:

Interesting. Not totally welded to the Tension but I've been on a Moon Board at 40 degrees and found it to be mostly too hard. It seemed like the Tension had a bit wider range of hold sizes, so I'd been thinking it might be a little friendlier? Again, I'd also at least initially be lowering the angle of whatever board it is.

Have you climbed on the Tension board? And what V-grades are you climbing? I'd suggest trying before you buy. While the Tension Board does have some bigger holds, there aren't that many and the variety of easy problems you can set with them is pretty limited. They all end up being find of similar. Also, if you buy a home Tension Board as a lower V-grade climber you are spending a lot of money on small holds that you realistically won't get much use out of, even with the wall set at 20 degrees. You may be better off having a spray wall that you can set with holds that are better suited to your goals and abilities.

Next question would be what’s your max ceiling height. A 10* wall that’s only 10’ tall will basically be a traverse wall. So that’s another factor to consider. If your ceiling height is around 10-11’ than anything less than 20* won’t be very useful.

Optimistic wrote:

Basically on a good day (not super common this year!) I shakily lead easy 10 trad.  The goal (I know it's humble) is just to be really solid on pretty much any trad 10.  I definitely can't be on a 20 degree wall for 20 minutes...although I could definitely see how that would be a handy capability when trying to fiddle in dinky cams on the aforementioned trad 10's.

Based on this, I don't think any of those commerical boards are a good home-wall choice for you. While you can do a bit of climbing on them, for the most part they are too advanced for you to get full value out of an expensive training tool designed by (and for) strong boulderers. 

Build the ARC/warmup wall at 15 degrees, and the steeper bouldering wall at 30 or 35 degrees. On both walls, be prepared to get some pretty big jugs, and well as smaller holds, to allow a range of options.

Justin Laursen wrote: Just out of curiosity, why do you specifically want a Tension Board? In my experience, they’re not as “fun” as a Moon or Kilter board and are also generally harder. My experience has been that if something is difficult and enjoyable, then I’ll be back for more. If it’s just difficult, then that’s the end of it. The Tension Board seems like a rather niche training tool for the overly stoked. 

I personally, REALLY like the wooden holds on the tension board. My skin isn’t the first thing to fail, when I’m trying to do volume. On Moonbiard, skin is the first casualty. (Well... maybe the second, after my dignity...)

Also, the symmetry of the Tension board is sooo!!! awesome. For me personally, seeing that I can do a move on one side, yet it feels “reachy” on the other side is very helpful. Bc then I know that it is not the reach. It is a specific weakness on one side, and I’m so much more motivated to work on it if I have a hard evidence that the identical move on the other side is within reach, so obviously it isn’t the reach that is a problem. 
And adjustable angle is such a boon in a small space! 
Finally, the Moonboard does not have any problems easier than V3/V4.  By design, of course. But if you can’t do V4, it isn’t much use.
I think Tension board database of problems isn’t anywhere near as good as the moonboard app has, and there aren’t “benchmark” problems, so the problems in Tension app feel a bit all over the place, and not as good as the moonboard problems. 
But on the whole, if I had to pick one for a home wall, I’d go with Tension, I think. 

Optimistic wrote:

Basically on a good day (not super common this year!) I shakily lead easy 10 trad.  The goal (I know it's humble) is just to be really solid on pretty much any trad 10.  I definitely can't be on a 20 degree wall for 20 minutes...although I could definitely see how that would be a handy capability when trying to fiddle in dinky cams on the aforementioned trad 10's.

Oh, I missed this part... yeah, while Tension board does have V0-V1s, getting a training hoard at this stage is a bit like buying a Porsche,  because you will be using the cupholders, and the seats are comfortable... but you didn’t get the drivers license yet. 

Optimistic wrote:

Do you use one pretty frequently?  Do you find there are decent offerings for problems in the v2-v5 (gym grades, which typically are pretty soft by outdoor standards)?  

I started using one 3-4 days a week about two months ago. I feel like there are plenty of problems in that range and have never gotten bored or felt like I’ve run out of things to do. I jumped from barely doing V2s two months ago to breaking into V5s l, but this is just tension board grades. I’ve never bouldered outdoors, only sport climbed. I have pretty much stopped rope climbing in the gym except to practice leading and endurance and now use the tension board almost exclusively and have seen my climbing improve by leaps and bounds. They really are great tools. 

Heather S wrote:

I started using one 3-4 days a week about two months ago. I feel like there are plenty of problems in that range and have never gotten bored or felt like I’ve run out of things to do. I jumped from barely doing V2s two months ago to breaking into V5s l, but this is just tension board grades. I’ve never bouldered outdoors, only sport climbed. I have pretty much stopped rope climbing in the gym except to practice leading and endurance and now use the tension board almost exclusively and have seen my climbing improve by leaps and bounds. They really are great tools. 

Thanks Heather. Your board is set at 40 degrees? 

Just an FYI: prices on the Tension board went up dramatically in the last year.  My friends and I had been waffling on whether to get a Tension or Moon board, and finally decided on a Tension... only to find that the holds+LED kit jumped from $3500 to $4500.  Meanwhile, the weak pound has a full Moon setup -with- panels coming in under $3k.

Mark Paulson wrote: Just an FYI: prices on the Tension board went up dramatically in the last year.  My friends and I had been waffling on whether to get a Tension or Moon board, and finally decided on a Tension... only to find that the holds+LED kit jumped from $3500 to $4500.  Meanwhile, the weak pound has a full Moon setup -with- panels coming in under $3k.

Did you go ahead with the Tension anyway, or get the Moon? 

Mark Paulson wrote: Just an FYI: prices on the Tension board went up dramatically in the last year.  My friends and I had been waffling on whether to get a Tension or Moon board, and finally decided on a Tension... only to find that the holds+LED kit jumped from $3500 to $4500.  Meanwhile, the weak pound has a full Moon setup -with- panels coming in under $3k.

I was wavering back and forth on this and went moon for the number of problems, benchmarks and price. I got the first three sets of holds and the screw ons (~150 holds) shipped for $1k (~1 set of tension holds). I’m also building a variable angle set up. V3 at 40 degrees is not V3 at 20. I also put in a second pattern of t-nuts so I can add other holds(slopers jugs etc). Hoping to arc as well. Still building the wall and waiting for holds to arrive so no report yet.

Optimistic wrote:

Thanks Heather. Your board is set at 40 degrees? 

It’s not mine, it’s in my gym. It’s variable angle and I have used it from 15 to 40 degrees. Right now mostly 25-30 but I’m starting to work on steeper problems more often. The slippery wooden holds really highlight weaknesses at steeper angles, which is great for training. However take all this with a grain of salt because I don’t have much experience with the other boards except for visiting gyms out of town.