Climbers & native american territories on social media

What's up with the new cool tagging wherever you are climbing as "ohlone territory " or "ute territory? Noticed it on access fund awhile back and now its bleeding to pro&amatuer climbers alike.

People are just trying to recognize that most of the places we live and climb had names prior to europeans re-naming them. Many of those names are still in use, just generally not by non-native people. No more, no less

It's an incredibly effective way to alleviate the human suffering and historical oppression of modern people who identify as native descendants. And the hashtags are certain to foster (among living native American descendants) the kinds of cultural and personal patterns instrumental to the progress of once downtrodden now flourishing americans of Jewish and  Asian ancestry.

Pay no attention to rates of alcoholism, suicidality, obesity, fatherlessness, or environmental devastation, resource exploitation, or terrible public schools on reservations. The way we're gonna support native peoples of the 21st century is by noting to our followers on instagram that we googled which tribe lived where roughly 300 years ago.

 Ignore that those tribes' own ancestors had been gaining and losing territory, slaves, and wealth from each other through war for thousands of years so whichever tribe or name you decide on, it was almost certainly there in ~1700AD after committing genocide or military conquest over some other tribe history has forgotten.

Oh wait, it's just mindless virtue signaling. 

Danny Herrera wrote: What's up with the new cool tagging wherever you are climbing as "ohlone territory " or "ute territory? Noticed it on access fund awhile back and now its bleeding to pro&amatuer climbers alike.

It's just SJWs doing their virtue signaling. It's the modern day equivalent of chest thumping. 

If our white forefathers didn't lie cheat and steal from the natives y'all be speaking Navajo right now.

Stagg54 Taggart wrote:

It's the modern day equivalent of chest thumping. 

I think it's more like the modern (online) version of wearing a big american flag pin, or stating your preferred gender pronouns in your email signature.

It demonstrates more about one's politics than it does about one's native american knowledge/policies or gender preference. It's social-media shorthand for "I'm a good person and I hold a suite of 2019 progressive woke values, PS Erin Monahan please don't attack me on Terra Incognita!"

The irony is that the vast majority of all native groups globally treated the vulnerable or dissenters in their populations, as well as "outsiders", with far more violence and immorality than any western democracy treats its criminals or state critics today. And many indigenous terms for a specific area of land, or their names for themselves as a specific population of people translate into "God's Land" or "The People" implying that everyone else were subhuman occupiers of ungodly dirt.

From Native-Land.ca: "Territory acknowledgement is a way that people insert an awareness of Indigenous presence and land rights in everyday life.... Territory acknowledgements are one small part of disrupting and dismantling colonial structures."

These are one small act in support of indigenous rights. If native people feel positively about this, which is what I've mostly heard, and it helps to make the ongoing story of indigenous people in this country more visible, then I'm all for it.

Native-land.ca, for those interested, allows you to plug in a location and learn who calls those lands home, both historically and currently.

Danny Herrera wrote: What's up with the new cool tagging wherever you are climbing as "ohlone territory " or "ute territory? Noticed it on access fund awhile back and now its bleeding to pro&amatuer climbers alike.

Land acknowledgment is a widespread practice with a long history. 

According to Teen Vogue, "The purpose of these statements is to show respect for indigenous peoples and recognize their enduring relationship to the land. Practicing acknowledgment can also raise awareness about histories that are often suppressed or forgotten." And according to the CBC, many indigenous people view land acknowledgment as "a small but essential step toward reconciliation." 

The idea that "SJW's" think land acknowledgments ought to suffice in place of addressing centuries of social, political, and economic injustice and oppression faced by indigenous peoples is a clear straw man. Those who resort to such straw man claims do so because they'd rather mock these practices than think seriously and honestly about how we all got where we are. Talk about chest thumping.

 

https://www.northwestern.edu/native-american-and-indigenous-peoples/about/Land%20Acknowledgement.html

Kalil Oldham wrote:

Land acknowledgment is a widespread practice with a long history. 

According to Teen Vogue, "The purpose of these statements is to show respect for indigenous peoples and recognize their enduring relationship to the land. Practicing acknowledgment can also raise awareness about histories that are often suppressed or forgotten." And according to the CBC, many indigenous people view land acknowledgment as "a small but essential step toward reconciliation." 

The idea that "SJW's" think land acknowledgments ought to suffice in place of addressing centuries of social, political, and economic injustice and oppression faced by indigenous peoples is a clear straw man. Those who resort to such straw man claims do so because they'd rather mock these practices than think seriously and honestly about how we all got where we are. Talk about chest thumping.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/indigenous-land-acknowledgement-explained

Thanks, I will use the included Teen Vogue reference to think more "seriously and honestly" about how best to encourage flourishing among modern descendants of native americans.

If you're interested in the causes of WWII and the great depression, I've got an exhaustive bibliography of hard hitting exposes from US Weekly, Tiger Beat, and Highlights for Children.

ClimberRunner wrote:

Thanks, I will use the included Teen Vogue reference to think more "seriously and honestly" about how best to encourage flourishing among modern descendants of native americans.

If you're interested in the causes of WWII and the great depression, I've got an exhaustive bibliography of links to hard hitting exposes in US Weekly, Tiger Beat, and Highlights for Children.

News flash folks: the teens care about making the world better. They're all a bunch of gender-pronoun-using, climate-change-crusading, racial-injustice-protesting SJWs. And they're coming for all of us. I say more power to 'em. 

ClimberRunner wrote:

Thanks, I will use the included Teen Vogue reference to think more "seriously and honestly" about how best to encourage flourishing among modern descendants of native americans.

If you're interested in the causes of WWII and the great depression, I've got an exhaustive bibliography of hard hitting exposes from US Weekly, Tiger Beat, and Highlights for Children.

FWIW, Teen Vogue has actually had one of the best editorial staffs of a major circulation magazine for the past several years.  They are worth reading, regardless of who you are.  Don't mock until you've read.

Josh wrote:

Teen Vogue has actually had one of the best editorial staffs of a major circulation magazine for the past several years.  

This claim seems so preposterous I am going to just take your word for it so as to not actually spend time reading Teen Vogue.

However, I do have a few questions. (feel free to read in an exaggeratedly sarcastic/condescending inner monologue)

1. What is a "circulation magazine" vs a "magazine"?
2. Which such ones  are the "major" ones?
3. How many magazines even have editorials or editorial staff? Does Teen Vogue?
4. Can you link or suggest a single recent editorial from Teen Vogue, which has one of the best editorial staffs, that would demonstrate their excellence?

Faster than you typed the question, you could have typed "teen vogue" into wikipedia and learned this:

In December 2016, the magazine published an opinion article by Lauren Duca, the magazine’s weekend editor, entitled "Donald Trump Is Gaslighting America."[33] Within weeks, the essay had been viewed 1.2 million times, and on NPR's All Things Considered, David Folkenflik described the essay as signaling a shift in the magazine's emphasis toward more political and social engagement.[34] According to The New York Times, many media observers were "surprised to see a magazine for teenagers making such a strong political statement,"[35] although Folkenflik acknowledged he drew criticism for expressing this surprise and at Slate, Mark Joseph Stern argued the essay was consistent with the magazine's record, since the appointment of Welteroth and Picardi, as a "teen glossy with seriously good political coverage and legal analysis, an outlet for teenagers who—shockingly!—are able to think about fashion and current events simultaneously."[36] At The Atlantic, Sophie Gilbert similarly noted, "The pivot in editorial strategy has drawn praise on social media, with some writers commenting that Teen Vogue is doing a better job of covering important stories in 2016 than legacy news publications."[37]

I truly would not have guessed that this thread could evolve into a defense of the journalistic standards at Teen Vogue.

In all seriousness, I don't doubt that Teen Vogue may have published an excellent article or two over the past decade.

But hashtagging a place name we think some ethnic group used for a certain region is still just performative repentance signaling (ignoring real obstacles of native americans today) for people to demonstrate to their instagram followers that they looked up the translation of a native word for somewhere.

Do you think that Aztecs used to make land acknowledgements about how they ruled stolen Olmec land? Or the Lakota used to cite the prior Pawnee or Cheyenne or Blackfoot inhabitants of their territory? Something tells me those acknowledgements would have been made with a little more celebration and less repentance than the current style favors.

ClimberRunner wrote: 
Do you think that Aztecs used to make land acknowledgements about how they ruled stolen Olmec land? Or the Lakota used to cite the prior Pawnee or Cheyenne or Blackfoot inhabitants of their territory? Something tells me those acknowledgements would have been made with a little more celebration and less repentance than the current style favors.

Your persistent point seems to be this: the world has always been a brutal, violent, take-no-prisoners kind of place. We are naive to think we can change that by calling attention to it. It's a fool's errand that impedes our ability to take real, meaningful action. I appreciate the sentiment; we shouldn't let empty platitudes serve as a substitute for the concrete work of addressing injustice. However, I'd add that knee-jerk, degrading, callous criticism of anyone who's trying to us their platform to raise awareness about history does not serve the purpose of addressing injustice either. Many people find value in facing social issues directly and honestly. It was James Baldwin who said, "Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced." Land acknowledgments - and other acts you deem to be empty performances - are not always part of the change, but they are a part of the honest facing of our past that will necessarily precede any meaningful change. Cynically scoffing at them serves no one.

Virtue signalllllllllllllllllllll yolo yeet. 

ClimberRunner wrote: It's actually an incredibly effective way to alleviate the human suffering and historical oppression of modern people who identify as native. And the hashtags are certain to foster (among living native American descendants) the kinds of cultural and personal patterns instrumental in the progress of once downtrodden now flourishing americans of Jewish and  Asian ancestry.

Pay no attention to rates of alcoholism, suicidality, obesity, fatherlessness, or environmental devastation, resource exploitation, or terrible public schools on reservations. The way we're gonna support native peoples of the 21st century is by noting to our followers on instagram that we googled which tribe lived where roughly 300 years ago.

 Ignore that those tribes' own ancestors had been gaining and losing territory, slaves, and wealth from each other through war for thousands of years so whichever tribe or name you decide on, it was almost certainly there in ~1700 via result of genocide or military conquest over some other tribe history has forgotten.

Oh wait, it's just mindless virtue signaling. 

While I appreciate your wit, one has to wonder why you care so much? What does it matter to you if people want to recognize some historical aspect of land occupation? That does not preclude them from doing something more concrete to help out with the issues that are rampant on reservations. And it's entirely possible that some native people appreciate the effort and that it does a small part to bridge a gap between communities. And even if it none of that is true, is is likely to do no harm. But there's always people like you who get inflamed anytime someone tries to recognize or reach out to a marginalized group. Like you're afraid Elizabeth Warren is going to get elected and give your house away to the local tribe. It's not going to happen, dude. Chill out. 

Kalil Oldham wrote:

Your persistent point seems to be this: the world has always been a brutal, violent, take-no-prisoners kind of place. We are naive to think we can change that by calling attention to it. It's a fool's errand that impedes our ability to take real, meaningful action. I appreciate the sentiment; we shouldn't let empty platitudes serve as a substitute for the concrete work of addressing injustice. However, I'd add that knee-jerk, degrading, callous criticism of anyone who's trying to us their platform to raise awareness about history does not serve the purpose of addressing injustice either. Many people find value in facing social issues directly and honestly. It was James Baldwin who said, "Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced." Land acknowledgments - and other acts you deem to be empty performances - are not always part of the change, but they are a part of the honest facing of our past that will necessarily precede any meaningful change. Cynically scoffing at them serves no one.

Solid Baldwin quote!

I was trying to research whether virtue signalling (a term which even a neoliberal like Sam Brown disregards) actually causes or results in inaction.  Does simply pressing "Like" result in a lack of change, or were those who did so unlikely to take active steps anyways?  In my short amount of researching, I didn't come across anything definitive.

So, unscientifically, there is no definitive harm in the few seconds of hashtagging to acknowledge native lands, and a potential for increased public good; as you note, "nothing can be changed until it is faced." There are no police disallowing a climber from entering Smith without using native names, and to use one does not lessen one's enjoyment of techy sun-washed cranking.  And if it does, one needs take a long look in the mirror to think about his or her priorities.

Kalil Oldham wrote:

. It was James Baldwin who said, "Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced." Land acknowledgments - and other acts you deem to be empty performances - are not always part of the change, but they are a part of the honest facing of our past that will necessarily precede any meaningful change. 

Why would it be the case that an honest facing of the past will need to necessarily precede meaningful change in the present? There's no evidence for that claim. Problems of the present improve by facing problems of the present, not by listing who lived where 300 years ago.

Baldwin was a smart guy, but he's wrong that no problem will ever improve unless it is specifically "faced". However, in this case my point is aligned with Baldwin's more broadly and his quote seems to disagree with your sentiment about honestly facing actual issues. Spending time "facing" some native place names is a way to avoid "facing" the actual disfunction on native communities while thinking you are helping.

Populations with absolutely no knowledge of their ancestors have achieved meaningful positive changes throughout history despite ignorance of the past. Pick any dimension of human welfare from health to education to income to family cohesion. Improving that dimension does not rely on acknowledging one's ancestors struggles or triumphs. If it did, then the poor whites of Appalachia or the poor Blacks of Baltimore ought to focus on what area of Scotland or West Africa their ancestors inhabited and what names they called it.  Instead, the same remedies to poverty, poor health, single parenthood, and crime that will help non Native Americans will also fundamentally be the changes offering greatest help to Native Americans.

ClimberRunner wrote: It's actually an incredibly effective way to alleviate the human suffering and historical oppression of modern people who identify as native. And the hashtags are certain to foster (among living native American descendants) the kinds of cultural and personal patterns instrumental in the progress of once downtrodden now flourishing americans of Jewish and  Asian ancestry.

Pay no attention to rates of alcoholism, suicidality, obesity, fatherlessness, or environmental devastation, resource exploitation, or terrible public schools on reservations. The way we're gonna support native peoples of the 21st century is by noting to our followers on instagram that we googled which tribe lived where roughly 300 years ago.

 Ignore that those tribes' own ancestors had been gaining and losing territory, slaves, and wealth from each other through war for thousands of years so whichever tribe or name you decide on, it was almost certainly there in ~1700 via result of genocide or military conquest over some other tribe history has forgotten.

Oh wait, it's just mindless virtue signaling. 

"Pay no attention to rates of alcoholism, suicidality, obesity, fatherlessness, or environmental devastation, resource exploitation, or terrible public schools on reservations." Please. That's a blatant white people's stereotype of the American Indian reservations.  Not all tribal lands are Pine Ridge.

"Ignore that those tribes' own ancestors had been gaining and losing territory, slaves, and wealth from each other through war for thousands of years so whichever tribe or name you decide on, it was almost certainly there in ~1700 via result of genocide or military conquest over some other tribe history has forgotten." Again another stereotype. There are many many nations who inhabit or inhabited this continent, not all of them were war-mongering savages like you describe.

I think that recognizing the cultural and literal genocide that occurred in the land now known as the U.S.A. might be a good step for people to become more sympathetic to the causes of certain marginalized groups that still live here.