Reservation system for popular crags

All hail Big Brother!

You mean Big Bro!

Eric and Lucie wrote: Apps, GPS,... Don't just assume that everyone out there owns and carries a stupid phone... I don't.

That will likely change radically in the next several years. There are all sorts of scenarios where a pocket computer will become an absolute necessity.

Eric Chabot wrote: At risk of feeding the trolls....

It would also encourage people to get off the beaten path and climb at crags with less 'classic' routes, where a permit would be easier to get. 

Do you really want to encourage people to get off the beaten path and discover all the good crags out there that are currently under the radar? I just started getting to more of those and I wouldn't want to see them become popular, for more than one reason.

Marc801 C wrote:

That will likely change radically in the next several years. There are all sorts of scenarios where a pocket computer will become an absolute necessity.

I ban them on river trips and backpacking trips that I am the leader of. I even ban watches. 

“Eat when you are hungry, drink when you are thirsty, and sleep when you are tired. If there are issues, let us talk them out, preferably before they become issues.”

Andrew Rational wrote:

I ban them on river trips and backpacking trips that I am the leader of. I even ban watches. 

For a lot of people, it's their only way of taking photos. You would deny them photo memories of one of your trips?

Well, Hueco went to a reservation system in 1998, and though I am not a fan, the locals, especially the local locals, seem to be all for it.

Andrew Rational wrote:

I ban them on river trips and backpacking trips that I am the leader of. I even ban watches. 

“Eat when you are hungry, drink when you are thirsty, and sleep when you are tired. If there are issues, let us talk them out, preferably before they become issues.”

You also ban shoes and jet boils? Dont be so dumb

Hobo Greg wrote:

Might as well stay home and jerk off.

You can take the boy out of Jersey, but not the Jersey out of the boy. 

Marc801 C wrote:

That will likely change radically in the next several years. There are all sorts of scenarios where a pocket computer will become an absolute necessity.

And a requirement to have some expensive device or even a cheap device to access public lands will easily be defeated as discriminatory. 

Private land is a different story. 

Zachary Bright wrote:

My point wasn’t to whine. Just giving an example of how systems are kind of haphazardly being implemented. If it was just a first come first serve permit or a reservation system it would be fine either way with me. But giving paid reseverations and priority to guides bringing groups in isnt ideal for everyone else. Especially if it’s not listed anywhere as available for rental. S

I hope you do complain to the city and work with the guiding company to get a better solution such as making it okay to climb on routes they are not already actively using, same as Mission Gorge.  Since you live in the city you may have some pull.

Edward Abbey was really pissed when they banned wood gathering, paved the road, and began charging entrance fees at Arches National Park in the 1960s. I had similar feelings when they started charging money at the campgrounds in Joshua Tree in 2003. Now those days when you could roll up to Jumbo on a Friday night, find an available spot, and pay $5 to camp seem so quaint.

Something new happens every generation. I'm sure the old guard will be complaining every step of the way.

Greg D wrote:

And a requirement to have some expensive device or even a cheap device to access public lands will easily be defeated as discriminatory.

The point I'm making is that eventually (and sooner than most think) smartphones/pocket computers will be required for all aspects of life and hence will be ubiquitous, rendering the discriminatory aspect a non-issue.

Get up earlier, or climb at night.  If you cant get on the rock, adapt and go when others arent there

The Gunks doesn't limit climbers or do anything for the preservation per se (where the money goes nobody knows) they only charge for use. I definitely wouldn't use them as an example of what should be done. 

Marc801 C wrote: The point I'm making is that eventually (and sooner than most think) smartphones/pocket computers will be required for all aspects of life and hence will be ubiquitous, rendering the discriminatory aspect a non-issue.

Your point is rather obvious. The flaws are:
“Will be required”
“All aspects of life”

Believe it or not, there are people that have not nor will ever be on Facebook. And there will be people that will refuse to use a phone for everything. Although most will give in for the convenience.

Greg D wrote: Your point is rather obvious. The flaw is 
“Will be required”
“All aspects of life”

Believe it or not, there are people that have not nor will ever be on Facebook. And there will be people that will refuse to use a phone for everything. Although most will give in for the convenience.

Y'all are still thinking too narrowly. We're not talking about Facebook and Instagram.

I have a friend who uses their SP to unlock their house, control lighting, and order groceries to pick up on the way home.
A colleague in South Korea hasn't used cash or credit cards in over 4 years - all payments done exclusively with their phone, most of the time with near field proximity tech.
These are only a tiny fraction of the use cases.

Wow. Impressed.

And many people will NEVER hook their house to WiFi. Plenty of good reasons not to. 

Greg D wrote: Wow. Impressed.

And many people will NEVER hook their house to WiFi. Plenty of good reasons not to. 

Until it happens automatically via your electrical system.

Marc801 C wrote:

Until it happens automatically via your electrical system.

 If you are able to escape Communist China you should come to merica. Here we get to choose which products and services we allow in our homes. 

Marc801 C wrote:

Y'all are still thinking too narrowly. We're not talking about Facebook and Instagram.

I have a friend who uses their SP to unlock their house, control lighting, and order groceries to pick up on the way home.
A colleague in South Korea hasn't used cash or credit cards in over 4 years - all payments done exclusively with their phone, most of the time with near field proximity tech.
These are only a tiny fraction of the use cases.

Not everyone has or wants a smart phone. Sounds like another barrier for low income users of our public lands.