Bitter and Hostile Former Climbers Over 50 #1

Let's face it, climbing is going straight to hell.

Time for a little frank advice from real climbers, even if a few snowflakes get singed in the process.

I'll start-

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

Real climbers risk groundfall before hangdogging. 

QUIT GYM BOLTING THE WORLD!!!

Do you have to be over 50 to participate in this one or can you just be a nonmillenial with a full time job and don’t have a sprinter van? 

mediocre wrote: Do you have to be over 50 to participate in this one or can you just be a nonmillenial with a full time job and don’t have a sprinter van? 

I think as long as you are over 50 in spirit, your opinions should count more than anybody else’s. 

Sheeee-it.  This is gittin' complicated.  What if you're over 60, your spirit is under 30, you don't have a Sprinter van, you like bolted routes and you're only bitter sometimes?

mediocre wrote: Do you have to be over 50 to participate in this one or can you just be a nonmillenial with a full time job and don’t have a sprinter van? 

I'm close, but not over.  I say if you have a problem with the following, this thread is for you (and me):

• Ropes hanging on routes with no one climbing as some sort of half-ass reservation
• Hostile, unleashed dogs
• Dogshit at the crag
• Human shit at the crag
• Groups of five or larger on a route (particularly if it's a good warmup and motherfuckers are hangdogging the piss out of it and not even at the crux yet) and taking forever- like all damn day
• Hammocks blocking the trail
• Hammocks, period
• Music- of any kind.  No one wants to hear what puts you in the "zone" because everyone has different tastes.  Leave the goddamned speaker at home.
• Gear thrown everywhere
• Spray- of any kind.  Spray about your prowess, spray about your accolades, spray about beta on a route (especially if it's unsolicited)
• Arguing couples/partners
• Generally being loud af and obnoxious.  Some people are actually there to focus and try hard.  We don't need to hear about the person you hate at work or the person you're trying to nail- from five routes over.
• Trash/left gear (same thing here- if you leave shit at the crag, whether it's actual "shit" or whether it's a rack of cams, it's littering.)  Don't ask for it back.  It's not hard to do a gear check before you leave for the day.  If you don't possess that very basic skill of keeping track of expensive gear that you paid for, then you probably lack the basic skill and memory to competently climb outside in the first place
• If you rappel from sport routes equipped for lowering, you are a permagumby- especially if you're teaching other gumbies that this is the only way.
• Parking like an asshole.

Did I miss anything?  Oh, and while I'm at it, and since Mark has afforded us the venue in which to vent- I'd like to thank Alex Honnold, Tommy and Kevin, the douchers at Reel Rock, every gear company anywhere that's well-known and has a large marketing budget, and every gym ever for making climbing so popular (you know, "GROWING THE SPORT")  and making cragging such a miserable shitshow.  I used to be able to go out and be a LNT 5.11+ chuffer in peace.  Now it's hard to escape the list above and on some weekends, I experience EVERY FUCKING ITEM on that list, at the same crag, on the same day.  So to everyone that made this the case, here's the most sarcastic "thank you" I can muster.

And yes, to those that say "everyone has the right..." and "it's up to the people doing it correctly to pass on...." and "you're just a curmudgeon..." and "you don't own the rock..."

Yeah.  I get it. You're right.  I do.  I'm trying, it's just impossible nowadays because there's not enough of "us" to keep up with the volume that's being churned out of gyms.  And IMO opinion, no amount of curmudgeonly disdain is going to make up for the fact that areas are being run into the ground, erosion is increasing exponentially, and it is affecting access, for ALL OF US.

Also, before this rebuttal is offered, there isn't enough "trail day climber festival kumbaya" nonsense to keep up with it either.  Every year, there are multiple "festivals" and "trail days" that take place.  Super.  Great.  Every year the list of infractions also gets bigger- so it doesn't look like one really has an effect on the other.

If we're honest with ourselves, it's not sustainable, and access will be cut off or severely restricted eventually as a result.  When that happens, I hope you blame the aforementioned responsible parties as much as you blame the gumbies.  

In case you haven't read it, here's just a hint of what's to come.  This list below, if you added in all the places that have been closed or restricted but don't make it to the list because they're not "destination" areas, the list would probably be five times as long.

Oh yay- "poop crisis"  - there's literally a "crisis" for human shit.  It's exceedingly easy to police your own feces, yet here we are having this conversation.  But hey, at least the stoke is high because climbing is going to be in the olympics.  Here's hoping the competitors learn to hand jam.

don'tchuffonme wrote:

I'm close, but not over.  I say if you have a problem with the following, this thread is for you (and me):

• Ropes hanging on routes with no one climbing as some sort of half-ass reservation
• Hostile, unleashed dogs
• Dogshit at the crag
• Human shit at the crag
• Groups of five or larger on a route (particularly if it's a good warmup and motherfuckers are hangdogging the piss out of it and not even at the crux yet) and taking forever- like all damn day
• Hammocks blocking the trail
• Hammocks, period
• Music- of any kind.  No one wants to hear what puts you in the "zone" because everyone has different tastes.  Leave the goddamned speaker at home.
• Gear thrown everywhere
• Spray- of any kind.  Spray about your prowess, spray about your accolades, spray about beta on a route (especially if it's unsolicited)
• Arguing couples/partners
• Generally being loud af and obnoxious.  Some people are actually there to focus and try hard.  We don't need to hear about the person you hate at work or the person you're trying to nail- from five routes over.
• Trash/left gear (same thing here- if you leave shit at the crag, whether it's actual "shit" or whether it's a rack of cams, it's littering.)  Don't ask for it back.  It's not hard to do a gear check before you leave for the day.  If you don't possess that very basic skill of keeping track of expensive gear that you paid for, then you probably lack the basic skill and memory to competently climb outside in the first place
• If you rappel from sport routes equipped for lowering, you are a permagumby- especially if you're teaching other gumbies that this is the only way.
• Parking like an asshole.

Did I miss anything?  Oh, and while I'm at it, and since Mark has afforded us the venue in which to vent- I'd like to thank Alex Honnold, Tommy and Kevin, the douchers at Reel Rock, every gear company anywhere that's well-known and has a large marketing budget, and every gym ever for making climbing so popular (you know, "GROWING THE SPORT")  and making cragging such a miserable shitshow.  I used to be able to go out and be a LNT 5.11+ chuffer in peace.  Now it's hard to escape the list above and on some weekends, I experience EVERY FUCKING ITEM on that list, at the same crag, on the same day.  So to everyone that made this the case, here's the most sarcastic "thank you" I can muster.

And yes, to those that say "everyone has the right..." and "it's up to the people doing it correctly to pass on...." and "you're just a curmudgeon..." and "you don't own the rock..."

Yeah.  I get it. You're right.  I do.  I'm trying, it's just impossible nowadays because there's not enough of "us" to keep up with the volume that's being churned out of gyms.  And IMO opinion, no amount of curmudgeonly disdain is going to make up for the fact that areas are being run into the ground, erosion is increasing exponentially, and it is affecting access, for ALL OF US.

Also, before this rebuttal is offered, there isn't enough "trail day climber festival kumbaya" nonsense to keep up with it either.  Every year, there are multiple "festivals" and "trail days" that take place.  Super.  Great.  Every year the list of infractions also gets bigger- so it doesn't look like one really has an effect on the other.

If we're honest with ourselves, it's not sustainable, and access will be cut off or severely restricted eventually as a result.  When that happens, I hope you blame the aforementioned responsible parties as much as you blame the gumbies.  

In case you haven't read it, here's just a hint of what's to come.  This list below, if you added in all the places that have been closed or restricted but don't make it to the list because they're not "destination" areas, the list would probably be five times as long.

Oh yay- "poop crisis"  - there's literally a "crisis" for human shit.  It's exceedingly easy to police your own feces, yet here we are having this conversation.  But hey, at least the stoke is high because climbing is going to be in the olympics.  Here's hoping the competitors learn to hand jam.

Not all heroes wear capes. 

don'tchuffonme wrote:

I'm close, but not over.  I say if you have a problem with the following, this thread is for you (and me):

• Ropes hanging on routes with no one climbing as some sort of half-ass reservation
• Hostile, unleashed dogs
• Dogshit at the crag
• Human shit at the crag
• Groups of five or larger on a route (particularly if it's a good warmup and motherfuckers are hangdogging the piss out of it and not even at the crux yet) and taking forever- like all damn day
• Hammocks blocking the trail
• Hammocks, period
• Music- of any kind.  No one wants to hear what puts you in the "zone" because everyone has different tastes.  Leave the goddamned speaker at home.
• Gear thrown everywhere
• Spray- of any kind.  Spray about your prowess, spray about your accolades, spray about beta on a route (especially if it's unsolicited)
• Arguing couples/partners
• Generally being loud af and obnoxious.  Some people are actually there to focus and try hard.  We don't need to hear about the person you hate at work or the person you're trying to nail- from five routes over.
• Trash/left gear (same thing here- if you leave shit at the crag, whether it's actual "shit" or whether it's a rack of cams, it's littering.)  Don't ask for it back.  It's not hard to do a gear check before you leave for the day.  If you don't possess that very basic skill of keeping track of expensive gear that you paid for, then you probably lack the basic skill and memory to competently climb outside in the first place
• If you rappel from sport routes equipped for lowering, you are a permagumby- especially if you're teaching other gumbies that this is the only way.
• Parking like an asshole.

Good list....

don'tchuffonme wrote:

I'm close, but not over.  I say if you have a problem with the following, this thread is for you (and me):

• Ropes hanging on routes with no one climbing as some sort of half-ass reservation
• Hostile, unleashed dogs
• Dogshit at the crag
• Human shit at the crag
• Groups of five or larger on a route (particularly if it's a good warmup and motherfuckers are hangdogging the piss out of it and not even at the crux yet) and taking forever- like all damn day
• Hammocks blocking the trail
• Hammocks, period
• Music- of any kind.  No one wants to hear what puts you in the "zone" because everyone has different tastes.  Leave the goddamned speaker at home.
• Gear thrown everywhere
• Spray- of any kind.  Spray about your prowess, spray about your accolades, spray about beta on a route (especially if it's unsolicited)
• Arguing couples/partners
• Generally being loud af and obnoxious.  Some people are actually there to focus and try hard.  We don't need to hear about the person you hate at work or the person you're trying to nail- from five routes over.
• Trash/left gear (same thing here- if you leave shit at the crag, whether it's actual "shit" or whether it's a rack of cams, it's littering.)  Don't ask for it back.  It's not hard to do a gear check before you leave for the day.  If you don't possess that very basic skill of keeping track of expensive gear that you paid for, then you probably lack the basic skill and memory to competently climb outside in the first place
• If you rappel from sport routes equipped for lowering, you are a permagumby- especially if you're teaching other gumbies that this is the only way.
• Parking like an asshole.

Did I miss anything?  Oh, and while I'm at it, and since Mark has afforded us the venue in which to vent- I'd like to thank Alex Honnold, Tommy and Kevin, the douchers at Reel Rock, every gear company anywhere that's well-known and has a large marketing budget, and every gym ever for making climbing so popular (you know, "GROWING THE SPORT")  and making cragging such a miserable shitshow.  I used to be able to go out and be a LNT 5.11+ chuffer in peace.  Now it's hard to escape the list above and on some weekends, I experience EVERY FUCKING ITEM on that list, at the same crag, on the same day.  So to everyone that made this the case, here's the most sarcastic "thank you" I can muster.

And yes, to those that say "everyone has the right..." and "it's up to the people doing it correctly to pass on...." and "you're just a curmudgeon..." and "you don't own the rock..."

Yeah.  I get it. You're right.  I do.  I'm trying, it's just impossible nowadays because there's not enough of "us" to keep up with the volume that's being churned out of gyms.  And IMO opinion, no amount of curmudgeonly disdain is going to make up for the fact that areas are being run into the ground, erosion is increasing exponentially, and it is affecting access, for ALL OF US.

Also, before this rebuttal is offered, there isn't enough "trail day climber festival kumbaya" nonsense to keep up with it either.  Every year, there are multiple "festivals" and "trail days" that take place.  Super.  Great.  Every year the list of infractions also gets bigger- so it doesn't look like one really has an effect on the other.

If we're honest with ourselves, it's not sustainable, and access will be cut off or severely restricted eventually as a result.  When that happens, I hope you blame the aforementioned responsible parties as much as you blame the gumbies.  

In case you haven't read it, here's just a hint of what's to come.  This list below, if you added in all the places that have been closed or restricted but don't make it to the list because they're not "destination" areas, the list would probably be five times as long.

Oh yay- "poop crisis"  - there's literally a "crisis" for human shit.  It's exceedingly easy to police your own feces, yet here we are having this conversation.  But hey, at least the stoke is high because climbing is going to be in the olympics.  Here's hoping the competitors learn to hand jam.

This is entirely too reasonable for the mtnprj

Mentors need to stop mentoring.

It’s a crisis that is well documented by the IPCC
(International Panel on Climbing Change)
We only have 11 more years left until it’s  irreversible, and the sport will  collapse.

The best actions to combat this is eliminating gym climbers, sport climbers, and Sprinters within the next 10 years.  Even if that was all accomplished, it might not be enough.  We may still need to eliminate bouldering, stick clips, and hammocks to truly reverse things for long lasting sustainability.

Act now or forever hold your piece.
Stoppers for stopping climbing change.

How can we get people OUT of climbing instead of IN to climbing?

Holy shit, Chuffer was just lookin for a place to unload. Love the thread. Keep it comin’

don'tchuffonme wrote:

I'm close, but not over.  I say if you have a problem with the following, this thread is for you (and me):

• Ropes hanging on routes with no one climbing as some sort of half-ass reservation
• Hostile, unleashed dogs
• Dogshit at the crag
• Human shit at the crag
• Groups of five or larger on a route (particularly if it's a good warmup and motherfuckers are hangdogging the piss out of it and not even at the crux yet) and taking forever- like all damn day
• Hammocks blocking the trail
• Hammocks, period
• Music- of any kind.  No one wants to hear what puts you in the "zone" because everyone has different tastes.  Leave the goddamned speaker at home.
• Gear thrown everywhere
• Spray- of any kind.  Spray about your prowess, spray about your accolades, spray about beta on a route (especially if it's unsolicited)
• Arguing couples/partners
• Generally being loud af and obnoxious.  Some people are actually there to focus and try hard.  We don't need to hear about the person you hate at work or the person you're trying to nail- from five routes over.
• Trash/left gear (same thing here- if you leave shit at the crag, whether it's actual "shit" or whether it's a rack of cams, it's littering.)  Don't ask for it back.  It's not hard to do a gear check before you leave for the day.  If you don't possess that very basic skill of keeping track of expensive gear that you paid for, then you probably lack the basic skill and memory to competently climb outside in the first place
• If you rappel from sport routes equipped for lowering, you are a permagumby- especially if you're teaching other gumbies that this is the only way.
• Parking like an asshole.

Did I miss anything?  Oh, and while I'm at it, and since Mark has afforded us the venue in which to vent- I'd like to thank Alex Honnold, Tommy and Kevin, the douchers at Reel Rock, every gear company anywhere that's well-known and has a large marketing budget, and every gym ever for making climbing so popular (you know, "GROWING THE SPORT")  and making cragging such a miserable shitshow.  I used to be able to go out and be a LNT 5.11+ chuffer in peace.  Now it's hard to escape the list above and on some weekends, I experience EVERY FUCKING ITEM on that list, at the same crag, on the same day.  So to everyone that made this the case, here's the most sarcastic "thank you" I can muster.

And yes, to those that say "everyone has the right..." and "it's up to the people doing it correctly to pass on...." and "you're just a curmudgeon..." and "you don't own the rock..."

Yeah.  I get it. You're right.  I do.  I'm trying, it's just impossible nowadays because there's not enough of "us" to keep up with the volume that's being churned out of gyms.  And IMO opinion, no amount of curmudgeonly disdain is going to make up for the fact that areas are being run into the ground, erosion is increasing exponentially, and it is affecting access, for ALL OF US.

Also, before this rebuttal is offered, there isn't enough "trail day climber festival kumbaya" nonsense to keep up with it either.  Every year, there are multiple "festivals" and "trail days" that take place.  Super.  Great.  Every year the list of infractions also gets bigger- so it doesn't look like one really has an effect on the other.

If we're honest with ourselves, it's not sustainable, and access will be cut off or severely restricted eventually as a result.  When that happens, I hope you blame the aforementioned responsible parties as much as you blame the gumbies.  

In case you haven't read it, here's just a hint of what's to come.  This list below, if you added in all the places that have been closed or restricted but don't make it to the list because they're not "destination" areas, the list would probably be five times as long.

Oh yay- "poop crisis"  - there's literally a "crisis" for human shit.  It's exceedingly easy to police your own feces, yet here we are having this conversation.  But hey, at least the stoke is high because climbing is going to be in the olympics.  Here's hoping the competitors learn to hand jam.

I'm going to pray for you.

Don't ask me. I own trycams.

Don'tchuffonme perfectly articulates my thoughts on this matter. I'd like to nominate him/her to be the curmudgeon party representative.  Climbing isn't golf... There are rules!
And e-mountain bikes?!? ...I guess that's for a different forum.

Screw all you over 50 people with your romantic notions of climbing. Clearly the only correct romantic notions of climbing come from the 41-49 age bracket.

Get off my native erosion control lawn covering!

don'tchuffonme wrote:

I'm close, but not over.  I say if you have a problem with the following, this thread is for you (and me):

• Ropes hanging on routes with no one climbing as some sort of half-ass reservation
• Hostile, unleashed dogs
• Dogshit at the crag
• Human shit at the crag
• blah blah blah blah..

and then?

Did I miss anything?  Oh, and while I'm at it, and since Mark has afforded us the venue in which to vent- I'd like to thank Alex Honnold, Tommy and Kevin, the douchers at Reel Rock, every gear company anywhere that's well-known and has a large marketing budget, and every gym ever for making climbing so popular (you know, "GROWING THE SPORT")  and making cragging such a miserable shitshow.  I used to be able to go out and be a LNT 5.11+ chuffer in peace.  Now it's hard to escape the list above and on some weekends, I experience EVERY FUCKING ITEM on that list, at the same crag, on the same day.  So to everyone that made this the case, here's the most sarcastic "thank you" I can muster.

And yes, to those that say "everyone has the right..." and "it's up to the people doing it correctly to pass on...." and "you're just a curmudgeon..." and "you don't own the rock..."

Nailing it! This goes so much deeper than we consumers acknowledge/recognize!

Yeah.  I get it. You're right.  I do.  I'm trying, it's just impossible nowadays because there's not enough of "us" to keep up with the volume that's being churned out of gyms.  And IMO opinion, no amount of curmudgeonly disdain is going to make up for the fact that areas are being run into the ground, erosion is increasing exponentially, and it is affecting access, for ALL OF US.

Also, before this rebuttal is offered, there isn't enough "trail day climber festival kumbaya" nonsense to keep up with it either.  Every year, there are multiple "festivals" and "trail days" that take place.  Super.  Great.  Every year the list of infractions also gets bigger- so it doesn't look like one really has an effect on the other.

If we're honest with ourselves, it's not sustainable, and access will be cut off or severely restricted eventually as a result.  When that happens, I hope you blame the aforementioned responsible parties as much as you blame the gumbies.  

Hammer down chuffer!

In case you haven't read it, here's just a hint of what's to come.  This list below, if you added in all the places that have been closed or restricted but don't make it to the list because they're not "destination" areas, the list would probably be five times as long.

Oh yay- "poop crisis"  - there's literally a "crisis" for human shit.  It's exceedingly easy to police your own feces, yet here we are having this conversation.  But hey, at least the stoke is high because climbing is going to be in the olympics.  Here's hoping the competitors learn to hand jam.

Ultimately we're all part of the problem.

We should have selfishly kept the act of climbing 'elite' and not shared the skills or knowledge. It should have been taught/experienced/shared in an apprentice like style. One on one. Its more intimate this way. more meaningful and a richer experience. Less death, less destruction too. Not some youtube video or endless forums (of which i am guilty of sharing tricks).

We masses and the 'murderers of the impossible' would have never come to be. Now its big corp and individual egos fighting for recognition. conspiring men folk looking to 'pass a piton', write a book and make a quick buck. opening up formally hard fought knowledge up to the masses to climb their 1st whatever. which leads to erik bolting the shit out of everything so that you and i don't have to truly commit to anything. topo's written out to the most exact detail raping the act of any adventure.

we are our own worst enemies.

too late. cat's out of the bag bitches! now we watch it burn.

Dr. Doom's minion,

JCS

Those under 70 years old don’t have a clue.

don'tchuffonme wrote:

I'm close, but not over.  I say if you have a problem with the following, this thread is for you (and me):

• 
  

Wow did that brighten my morning :) 

You damn near nailed all of the things that make me so hate-filled all the time while out climbing. Then again, my wife says I'm crotchety beyond my years. Cheers!