Does nobody understand BOOTY anymore?

I think I know of one other exception to the booty rule. Once, we somehow left our entire pack of gear leaning against the car right as we embarked on a 13 hr journey back home. I nearly shit myself when I realized what had happened, and *lucky for us* some kind soul from these forums found our shit and shipped it across the country for us. I was super grateful and sent the guy some largish amount of REI gift card. I can't remember who it was that sent it back for us, but they positively shaped my perception of the climbing community. 

I get mildly upset when upon arriving at a stuck piece, I find someone has tried to remove it by any means possible and rendered it unusable by anybody.

If you can't remove a piece without trashing it, leave it for someone who can!  It doesn't count if it is your piece, but it is still a dick move to wreck a cam just so no-one else can have it.

Same for a nut, if you can't get it out without fraying the wires, just consider it fixed. One winter will loosen that sucker up and someone will get it.

Right on! Thought I recognized it, but only knew the name of The El!! Will have to read up on this.

I do understand the term booty.  I also find the term offensive. It objectives those with larger than average buttocks and is similar in nature to offensive routes names

An occasional left piece is just part of the price of climbing. If I leave it, I consider it lost. If I find one on a route and don't know it was because of an accident, it's boot. I've probably left half a dozen pieces over the years, and probably found just as many. It tends to balance out. The stuff I've left is never my best, if I can help it, and the stuff I've found was never the best either. Still hoping to find a nice new cam some day!

Does it count if you booty your own booty?

Many years ago we did some variant pitches to the right of Standard Route on Whitehorse Ledge NH. They are now part of a "newer" route named ?????. In any case, I placed a #5 stopper behind a vertical flake of sorts. My partner worked  it for a few minutes and was unable to get it out, so we continued on. The route became a favorite of mine and we usually repeated it each season, clipping my now-resident stopper for at least 5 years. The next time we did it (6th year?) I noticed it was loose - a slight tweaking with the nut tool removed it. I put it on my rack and used a small cam in its place.

It resides in my basement with the other ancient gear.

i remember the first piece i found.  i was 14 and it was a #3 Hex on orange spectra. it's buried in the basement with the rest of my wind chimes.
 in hindsight, they probably left it behind for a reason.  

Marc801 C wrote: Does it count if you booty your own booty?

Yes, but it's not nearly as satisfying.
I was attempting a route in the WY back country when I saw a glimmer near a horn.  As I got to it, my excitement was very tempered by the realization that it was my missing alpine draw from a previous attempt.

trailridge wrote: I do understand the term booty.  I also find the term offensive. It objectives those with larger than average buttocks and is similar in nature to offensive routes names

So we should just call it "big-ass gear"?

I'm wondering who the lucky party was that found the numerous cams and draws scattered around Iron Messiah in Zion whenever my partner's gear loop busted in one of the chimneys. We were too dehydrated at the end of the day to make a proper search, and to top things off I left a camel back on a ledge with a nice headlamp, snacks + empty water bottles, and a $20 bill to boot.

I bootied a sweet mountain bike somebody abandoned at the trailhead.

David Deville wrote: I'm wondering who the lucky party was that found the numerous cams and draws scattered around Iron Messiah in Zion whenever my partner's gear loop busted in one of the chimneys. We were too dehydrated at the end of the day to make a proper search, and to top things off I left a camel back on a ledge with a nice headlamp, snacks + empty water bottles, and a $20 bill to boot.

*starts car*

brb...

I've always just adhered to these rules, from some old post somewhere on the interwebz by Tradman. And I laugh if someone asks me to deliver them their bail gear to them in town.

#1 If you leave it for any reason other than assisting in a rescue it is booty as soon as you leave the parking lot unless you make it known that you will be back the next day to retrieve it.
#2 if you plan on getting it the next day BE THERE BY 6:00AM! Don’t show up at 4:00pm and start crying when you can’t find your shwagg.
#3 If it takes full screws and you don’t know how to make a thread STFU and stop your whining
#4 Just because it is late and you are tired is no excuse to start drinking and head home to your computer to beg us to go retrieve you shwag for you.
Hike your lazy ass back up that trail and find you own lost tool or stop whining and write it off as lost.

Rules for finders.
#1 Stuff you find in the parking lot is Not booty. It's lost and found material.
#2 Any and All gear that is left or misplaced in the course of a rescue including the victims gear is NOT booty and will be collected and returned to rightful owners.
#3 any gear that is abandoned or lost due to incompetence, lack of skill, sack or sheer laziness is booty as soon as the former owners of that gear have left the cliff and given up attempts to retrieve that gear. Exceptions would be when the spanked party announces intention to resume recovery process at first light the following day.
#4 Finders of booty may offer to return said booty. The losing party loses face if they accept the return of their gear.

Rules for the losers
#1 Asking for your gear back is bad form and shows a lack of self respect.
#2 If the finder of your shwag offers to return it you may accept but if you do you will lose face. Buying them a six pack or case will help but in some cases still not completely erase the honor debt. If they offer , you refuse and they offer again and you accept it’s much better but you should still buy them a drink and you still lost face just not as much face.
#3 The ONLY way to escape your embarrassing loss of gear without losing face is to not accept its return . A simple ” thanks for offering but you guys earned it” should give you a clean slate 99.9% of the time.

David Deville wrote: I think I know of one other exception to the booty rule. Once, we somehow left our entire pack of gear leaning against the car right as we embarked on a 13 hr journey back home. I nearly shit myself when I realized what had happened, and *lucky for us* some kind soul from these forums found our shit and shipped it across the country for us. I was super grateful and sent the guy some largish amount of REI gift card. I can't remember who it was that sent it back for us, but they positively shaped my perception of the climbing community. 

That's pretty damn rad that they shipped it to you!

An abandoned full pack _definitely_ isn't booty, though. Anyone who claims it is is a turdburgler and I'd cheer if they ended up being arrested.

I had to leave a few hundred $$ worth of cams on Mithral Dihedral, all I brought were cams.  Anyway we bailed due to a thunderstorm.  When I got back into Lone Pine I went into the mountain shop and told the guy behind the counter that there are several cams left on the route if anyone wants them.  I had no expectation that they should be returned to me.  It's just the price of climbing in the mountains sometime.  A few cams is better than getting struck by lightening.

In the last 3 years I have retrieved significant gear on 4 occasions and taken the time to post to find the owner. All 4 times the owners contacted me to arrange a pickup. All 4 times the owners offered beer in return to be delivered upon pick up. All 4 times the owners showed up empty handed, no beer. All 4 owners were a certain younger social generation. Just saying.  Yes, I'm a crusty old "trad", but I follow through on promises. No more booty returns :-)

David Deville wrote: I'm wondering who the lucky party was that found the numerous cams and draws scattered around Iron Messiah in Zion whenever my partner's gear loop busted in one of the chimneys. We were too dehydrated at the end of the day to make a proper search, and to top things off I left a camel back on a ledge with a nice headlamp, snacks + empty water bottles, and a $20 bill to boot.

Ive found some pretty good stuff wandering around the base of Moonlight including a couple of really old large Chouinard angle pitons.  I wonder when the last time a pin was placed on Moonlight?  

Alt view on this: Would you rather they ask for your help and walk away or would you rather they spend all day clogging up the route you're about to get on trying to retrieve their bail/stuck gear?

Hmm, I'm conflicted on this one.  Given the downward nature of average incomes these days, I'm inclined to post about expensive cams and other things I find.  I know people who had to save for quite a while to buy their racks...

Of course all I ever find are mini bail biners, totally destroyed cams and the occasional UV-bleached tricam.

Tom Sherman wrote: Right on! Thought I recognized it, but only knew the name of The El!! Will have to read up on this.

Let me know if you need a partner up north!