New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #7

Carl Schneider wrote: Interesting conversation about shoes and footwork...

On Saturday my mate and I took a guy who is quite new to climbing outdoors for his first time.  We met at the bouldering gym on global climbing day last weekend.  He is quite a bit younger than me (I'm 57 he's 45) and arguably a lot fitter; he does wake boarding, trail running, surfing, long boarding (skateboarding). He said he climbs grade 19s in the gym (top rope).

We offered to let him go first on the grade 16 top rope climb we normally do as a warm up.  He didn't get over half way.  He couldn't find the footers, was over-gripping, reliant to much on his arms.

He did end up completing the route after maybe five attempts with quite a bit of rest between attempts.  I did is cleanly about 8 times.  Now, it's only a grade 16.  A 'nothing' really as far as a top rope climb goes.  I'm no great climber at ALL, but it was sop interesting to see the difference between indoors and outdoors for him.  As I said to him, I can't remember anyone who's come out doors climbing for the first time and been able to do a climb like this first go. Climbing well indoors just does not transfer well to climbing well outdoors.  

I pointed out a small footer on a rock at the base of the climb and said "THAT is a great footer. But you won;t find a footer that small in a gym. Even smearing on rock is fine".  He asked what smearing was.  Valid question as the walls in the gym he goes too are smooth wood and smearing just isn't a thing there.  It's like Lori's picture of her friend Ryan climbing indoors.  The left footer is great.

Anyway, here's a video of me showing him the sequence I use on the climb and my mate probably overdoing the instruction :-).  

Warning, the video contains a naughty                                                 word.

PS grade 16 is about a grade 5.8.

https://youtu.be/SskLIW3B88o

Carl. FINALLY we get to hear your voice.   You sound sorta... Australian! I kept expecting a Joey to go hopping through the frame. 

Funny I hear this all the time from outdoor guides... 5.11 gym climbers hire them for the day and want to be taken to 5.11 outdoor routes and they can’t get the first move. A lot of crushed egos out there.   

Señor Arroz wrote:

I think Jeff was talking about the photo of Billabong. I, too, went WTF? when I looked at the ropes in that photo. Is he leading? Is he on top rope? Is this one of those Japanese bondage tricks?

I think I posted this pic before and we were asking the same question. Fact is, I was so traumatized watching this guy climb I didn’t see any rope at all. I thought he was ropeless and I thought I was gonna watch him die. 

There’s a chimney under this route which I climbed so I could claim “the first half of Billabong”. I’m not sure I’ll ever see the second half.   

Lori Milas wrote:

Carl. FINALLY we get to hear your voice.   You sound sorta... Australian! I kept expecting a Joey to go hopping through the frame. 

Funny I hear this all the time from outdoor guides... 5.11 gym climbers hire them for the day and want to be taken to 5.11 outdoor routes and they can’t get the first move. A lot of crushed egos out there.   

Yeah, of course Mark is doing MOST of the talking; it's pretty hard to get a word in edgewise with him around.  

But now my back is in danger of going out!! It happens from time to time.
Maybe from doing this on the weekend...

Lori Milas wrote:

Carl. FINALLY we get to hear your voice.   You sound sorta... Australian! I kept expecting a Joey to go hopping through the frame. 

Funny I hear this all the time from outdoor guides... 5.11 gym climbers hire them for the day and want to be taken to 5.11 outdoor routes and they can’t get the first move. A lot of crushed egos out there.   

Especially at J-tree. 5.11 gym climb translates to about 5.6 J-tree. Plus there's that J-tree thing of pretty much ignoring the first 15-20 feet when rating a climb.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Especially at J-tree. 5.11 gym climb translates to about 5.6 J-tree. Plus there's that J-tree thing of pretty much ignoring the first 15-20 feet when rating a climb.

How many 5.11 have you lead in Jtree?

Jeffrey Constine wrote:

How many 5.11 have you lead in Jtree?

Where did I say I had? 5.11 J-tree is way above my pay grade.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Where did I say I had? 5.11 J-tree is way above my pay grade.

Take a trip with me to the PB slabs a few times that will be a thing of the past

Carl Schneider wrote: 
PS grade 16 is about a grade 5.8.

https://youtu.be/SskLIW3B88o

Nice looking climb!

Señor Arroz wrote:

Especially at J-tree. 5.11 gym climb translates to about 5.6 J-tree. Plus there's that J-tree thing of pretty much ignoring the first 15-20 feet when rating a climb.

Won't that vary widely, depending on your gym? Gym grades are all over the place too, in my experience.

Señor Arroz wrote:

Especially at J-tree. 5.11 gym climb translates to about 5.6 J-tree. Plus there's that J-tree thing of pretty much ignoring the first 15-20 feet when rating a climb.

This grading thing starts getting silly after awhile... having spent the summer climbing at Donner, the rock is so different it's hard to compare.  But for the sake of my tender self-esteem, it's good to know in advance that even a 5.6 at Josh is a real victory. 

I looked at your Evolvs, Senor.  Are these strictly your indoor shoes?  

It looks like my first trip back to Josh is firming up for October 1 or thereabouts and to stay a couple of weeks.  We've been talking about sidetrips to Red Rocks and Alabama Hills sometime during the season.  I would love to meet up with you at SO or Josh or both...

I do not know how the winter will be here this year, but the desert worked like a tonic on me last year when things got pretty dark.  Still trying to figure out a job, family and climbing... it's a hard juggling act.  

Lori Milas wrote: Has anyone climbed Billabong before?  Seems like the routes that really captivate me are slabby and thin.  I don't know what prep work I can do this month of September in the gym... maybe working on those little yellow nubbies with tighter shoes will help with these outdoor faces?  

I sat on a rock below and watched this guy climb this route and took pictures... I was afraid to make a sound that might distract him.  It was a beautiful scary dance.

I went back and looked at the pictures I took of this guy.  In this picture he appears to be leading, and the other ropes are maybe for someone else?  Another climber perhaps?

Russ Walling wrote: Perceived shoe performance is directly correlated to strength.  Get wicked strong and you could climb with two paper bags on your feet

Exactly it’s not the shoe that makes the climber, quiver people be aware lol

Maybe it’s the tighter shoes.  Or a previous trial run. I was able to stick to the nubs. But the other thing I wouldn’t have noticed if it hadn’t been pointed out to me... half of this route requires layback moves, and I avoid those like the plague.    So, a little inadvertent exposure to laybacks.

dragons wrote:

Nice looking climb!

It was voted the most popular climb in the Adelaide Hills by the Climbing Club of South Australia members.  A short climb (18m) and easy but nice.  The grade 21 to the right., which shares the same start (which I've led - trad and do a LOT of laps of on TR) is my favorite...

Lori Milas wrote: Maybe it’s the tighter shoes.  Or a previous trial run. I was able to stick to the nubs. But the other thing I wouldn’t have noticed if it hadn’t been pointed out to me... half of this route requires layback moves, and I avoid those like the plague.    So, a little inadvertent exposure to laybacks.

Oh don't avoid laybacks, I LOVE laybacks!!! They make climbs so much easier...

Led my first climb - 1985, Frogs Head, Gunks - in Converse All Stars. So there you go......Of course My partner (we both started climbing earlier that year) then bought a pair of Fires and promptly jumped up a graded or two. I had no choice, it was buy or die. So I broke down and bought a pair of Fire Cats. 

I'm wondering if anyone has experienced improvement in reaction-time as you spend increased time climbing?

This is something I hadn't quite noticed before, I've been focused on strength and endurance this year, thinking that these must be the qualities that leave us with age.  But I'll bet part of 'youth' is the ability to react quickly... catch a fall before it happens, grab something before it falls, think fast.  So... over the last few weeks at the gym I'm recognizing that I'm faster on my feet, faster to grab a crimp before I fall, faster to catch a rope or a swing. (not 'fast', just 'faster' ;) )  I think these are skills that seep away as we age.  I'm wondering if there are ways to work on this speed-time issue--reflex and reaction time exercises?    

 

Competition shooting helps!

Jeffrey Constine wrote: Competition shooting helps!

Hey  now!  A great idea!  Thank you!

Some new voices- nice!

Kris- you know me.... if I tip scales at 210- 5.10 is hard, when 190 I can do 5.11 when I was 175 it was 5.12 I was scratching for. Now at 68 I’m elated to climb 5.10 in the Meadows.

RGold.... Bobby did wear very tight hiking boots! Ones he didn’t hike around in. Once he started wearing proper climbing shoes, because they got invented, he hiked around in them! He was one of the few people who would put his boots on in his van and then do his Stony Point circuit. I really really miss that man! He taught me and many others (you?) how to “stand down” on tiny edges. RIP

Darrell- Thanks for “The Rest of the Story”..... I decked out on that one in front of a outward bound beginning climbing class getting the first bolt. The class was able to see first hand how one fixed bloody finger flappers with a nail clipper and crazy glue! Then I sent!

Jeff..... have you been to GFB post shaker? Wonder if anything fell over. I heard some things did at Wagon Wheel.

Lori... you will be amazed this time at JT. Your climbing has improved a ton in the last year- enjoy the fierce grip of the stone.
And you should do what most JT locals do- make the short drive to New Jack City. Despite what some will say about the place- it’s great steep climbing. Maybe hook up with Russ’s wife- she is a regular.

Russ... true about pure strength. I know that’s been your go to forever! 12oz curls + determination.... who needs boots! Lol

Aussie- if I win the lotto- I’ll see you down under!

And Mark! I feel sorry for you! As a proud graduate of Bellevue HS, class of 71..... I know there is nothing to climb unless ya drive to CO or SD. I do remember cliff diving at some local quarries. Any climbs around?

Sort of recovering from heat stroke now- two days of race directing- 10 hours on the hottest/biggest chunk of pavement in all of Southern California has left me sort of dazed.... hence this post!