A Proposal for How MP Could Deal With Offensive Route Names

Matt Wilson wrote:

I find this route name offensive

Does that mean you're in favor of the proposal?

It’s weird but it seems like silencing comments, ideas and words you don’t like has become big business in America.
It was only a few decades ago gay people and women were fighting for the right to be seen and heard.   How would that have worked if the old guard had as much power to control free speech as you want to give yourself?

You can call the rock whatever you want. Come up with a new name, and encourage others to use the new name. You can submit requests to change the name on MP, and write to guidebook authors.

Alternative thought experiment:
Let's posit that all routes start as a collection of holds that someone may or may not find and successfully link together.
Thus in a sense a rock climbing route is an artistic expression - art for short.
Part of art is the naming of a piece.
Art can be intentionally antagonistic, anger inducing, or create moral outrage.
Therefore the route name is a reflection on the route creator.
Don't be offended by the name - be offended by the person who created the name.

Keith Wood wrote:

Does that mean you're in favor of the proposal?

Nope.  What obligation does this website have to coddle me?

This is the first I'm seeing of this issue, but are you confident that merely hiding the name from the offended people would even be satisfactory to them?  I would assume they want the name scrubbed from the official pages of climbing history and not merely hidden from their own MP account.  

Mike Stephan wrote: This is the first I'm seeing of this issue, but are you confident that merely hiding the name from the offended people would even be satisfactory to them?  I would assume they want the name scrubbed from the official pages of climbing history and not merely hidden from their own MP account.  

Yeah. I agree. Some people will want to do that. The proposal is to sort of head them off at the pass. Because if things keep going the way they are, this sport will get sanitized for sure. Better, I say, to self-regulate than to get regulated. And with computers the ability to do so is quite flexible. The toggle, especially, would allow for a very customizable experience, and what's wrong with that?

Bret Files wrote: Sweet, we are getting more efficient. It only took two pages to reach the “endless quoting of arcane, early American political philosophy” stage of the thread.  

Are the personal observations of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and Yuri Bezmenov "arcane" - or self-evidently relevant, in the context of the Organized Criminals presently doing their laundry in the White House?

__________________________
"What it basically means is: to change the perception of reality of   every American that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to   come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their   families, their community, and their country.
   
  It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided   into four basic stages.
   
  The first stage being "demoralization".  

It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many   years? Because this is the minimum number of years required to educate one   generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of   [their] enemy. In other words, Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into   the soft heads of at least 3 generation of American students without being   challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism; American   patriotism."  
  --KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov
  --Soviet Subversion of the Free Press (Ideological subversion,   Destabilization, CRISIS - and the KGB)
  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bezmenov+on+demoralization+in+america

We really need to teach more coping and self soothing skills in schools. 

Greg Maschi wrote: Or you could simply choose to not be offended by a route name?Maybe climbing is just not for you, I hear stamp collecting is very non offensive .

You've obviously never seen Eastern European stamps.
Objectification of women, violence, oppression, and very little diversity.
Historically, US stamps give a full-throated approval to the patriarchy!
They will melt the snow(flakes) for sure.

don'tchuffonme wrote: Yes, yes, I'm sure that hiding the characters that form words that in turn form offensive mouth noises is the answer.  For instance, we should hide the routes:

*snip*

Oh wait...

Those are song titles.

I understand what you're getting at, but Seth Putnam was kind of legitimately racist so AxCx might not be the best source of shock-value-only song titles.

Mike Stephan wrote: I would assume they want the name scrubbed from the official pages of climbing history and not merely hidden from their own MP account.  

“The Party only needs good seeds. The Party commands you to kill them”

[Cambodia: THE FORCED LABOR OF ANGKAR LEU/CAP TREN 1975-79 (8/11) [KH-EN]

Tony B wrote: 
allow a user setting to 'opt out' of the censorship.

Excellent suggestion.  Allow those who self-select for censorship to do so without imposing it on the rest of us.

Doubt that idea will fly with the Black Pajama "progressive" crowd though.

Keith Wood wrote:

Thank you for your input. I have incorporated your revision into the original posting, minus the word strident with a note to the effect that it has been edited. However, I have still not weighed in. As a matter of fact, in the other threads, the free speech crowd is louder than the other.

The toggle idea seems reasonable.

Good on you.  Thanks for hearing that out.  It certainly makes you look a lot less biased, and biases the pretext a lot less.

So here:s my take on it:
Don't do it.

Though if you must, allow a user setting to 'opt out' of the censorship.
And if someone makes a report (suggests a censor), automatically 'opt in' that person to not see any stuff that is flagged at all.
That will help minimize the exposure to them.

Easy to fix route number one number two number three

This discussion reminds of all the names that some people would like scrubbed from Denver...Stapleton, Chivington, Hooker.

While there may be some valid concerns with their namesakes, the con’s of scrubbing outweigh the pro’s.

Tony B wrote:

Good on you.  Thanks for hearing that out.  It certainly makes you look a lot less biased, and biases the pretext a lot less.

So here:s my take on it:
Don't do it.

Though if you must, allow a user setting to 'opt out' of the censorship.
And if someone makes a report (suggests a censor), automatically 'opt in' that person to not see any stuff that is flagged at all.
That will help minimize the exposure to them.

No problem, Tony. That was exactly the kind of input I was hoping for. The thread is already drifting off topic from discussing the proposal. Your simple answer of "don't do it" is refreshing in a sea of "this is stupid" type comments.

Barry M wrote: CIS white males getting offended because some people take offense to sexist, racist, douche bag route names.

PRICELESS

What a racist remark.  As if some white males don't get offended by route names.  Also, white mails aren't the only ones who think this post is stupid.  

There are many bigger issues facing both climbers and the public in general.  I'd rather spend my time focused on things that really matter, like calling out bigots both in and out of government, reminding the MAGA supporters that the vast majority of us have immigrant heritage, informing others about how the out of control tax reductions and spending in Washington DC will impoverish future generations.   

Mountain Project.

1. Present a problem to the community.
2. Get told "if it's a problem present a solution or shut up about it.
3. Present maybe a solution.
4. Get told to shut up about it.

"Don't like the route name, don't climb it."

That's not how anything works. Some people climb because the route may be fun, not because of what it's named. I drink a beer because it tastes good, not because of what it's called. Things can be changed..