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Molly Mulcahy
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Aug 9, 2019
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Bend, OR
· Joined Aug 2012
· Points: 10
Hello, I have a couple of dumb questions about gear placement that I haven't been able to find answers too elsewhere. To give a little background me and my boyfriend are attempting to basically just teach ourselves how to trad climb as I cannot afford to hire a guide or take a course and I do not know anyone where I live that will teach us. I know people might want to call me stupid for trying to get the internet to teach me how to trad climb but in the 4+ years that I have been sport climbing I have never been able get one of my trad climbing buddies to take me out with them. I get it, I don't really enjoy taking beginner climbers out either but now that I have my own rack maybe I can get some real help from real people outside.
Anyways, until then I'm looking for basic help. We went out to Lookout Mountain in Golden, CO to mess around with gear placements, mock leading etc while safely on top rope.
1. When I was practicing placing nuts I wasn't sure if a placement that could be pulled out with upward force (i.e a light-ish tug upwards) would be considered a bad placement or if it was acceptable given the other placement factors were good (medium-high surface contact with the rock, felt solid and snug when pulled in the direction of fall). I know extending your pieces can prevent the rope from pulling upwards on pieces, but I still felt uneasy about how I could just pull the nut out of place pretty easily.
2. Is it acceptable to clip the rope directly into a cam or nut when the climb follows a completely straight line on somewhat low angle, or should you always add a quickdraw/alpine draw extension? I understand when you need to extend pieces to keep the rope in a straight line but it didn't seem necessary on this since it was so straight up (except the placements before the roof). I have also seen frequently that one of the biggest mistakes new trad climbers make it not extending their pieces, so I'm curious what most people do one very straight/low angle cracks. The climb was 5.8 crack if anyone is familiar.
3. I don't really have a frame of reference for how to rack up so I kinda just did what felt intuitive. I had alpine draws and a couple of quickdraws but when placing cams, since they already have a carabiner on one end, I was a little confused on how to add an extension with out it being cumbersome to take one of the carabiners off of the alpine draw. Do people also carry just a sling on one carabiner for extending cams or am I missing something here?
I appreciate any and all advice and help, I hope you guys can have empathy for someone who just really wants to fucking trad climb, even if I have to go the self taught route.
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FosterK
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Aug 9, 2019
·
Edmonton, AB
· Joined Nov 2012
· Points: 67
Molly M. wrote: Hello, I have a couple of dumb questions about gear placement that I haven't been able to find answers too elsewhere. To give a little background me and my boyfriend are attempting to basically just teach ourselves how to trad climb as I cannot afford to hire a guide Can't he contribute as well? :P A day split between the two you would be well worth it. That said:
1. When I was practicing placing nuts I wasn't sure if a placement that could be pulled out with upward force (i.e a light-ish tug upwards) would be considered a bad placement or if it was acceptable given the other placement factors were good (medium-high surface contact with the rock, felt solid and snug when pulled in the direction of fall). I know extending your pieces can prevent the rope from pulling upwards on pieces, but I still felt uneasy about how I could just pull the nut out of place pretty easily. Ideal nut placements protect from the direction of fall, as well as being pulled out perpendicular to the rope (i.e. from rope drag or tension when catching falls). It's generally not possible to also protect from an upward force excepting something like placing the the nut from behind a keyhole or pocket type placement.
2. Is it acceptable to clip the rope directly into a cam or nut when the climb follows a completely straight line on somewhat low angle, or should you always add a quickdraw/alpine draw extension? I understand when you need to extend pieces to keep the rope in a straight line but it didn't seem necessary on this since it was so straight up (except the placements before the roof). I have also seen frequently that one of the biggest mistakes new trad climbers make it not extending their pieces, so I'm curious what most people do one very straight/low angle cracks. The climb was 5.8 crack if anyone is familiar. I would generally not extend cams on routes where the climbing is fairly in-line; however, I find nuts are too prone to lifting to not at least need a quickdraw.
3. I don't really have a frame of reference for how to rack up so I kinda just did what felt intuitive. I had alpine draws and a couple of quickdraws but when placing cams, since they already have a carabiner on one end, I was a little confused on how to add an extension with out it being cumbersome to take one of the carabiners off of the alpine draw. Do people also carry just a sling on one carabiner for extending cams or am I missing something here? Just clip into the cam sling if you are using quickdraws or alpine draws - its okay for the cam sling to have an additional carabiner. If you have shoulder racked slings, then clip into the sling directly to the cams racking carabiner.
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Dan B
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Aug 9, 2019
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California
· Joined Oct 2015
· Points: 305
1. If it takes extreeemely little effort to pop the nut out from an upward direction, I would try and find something else or at least extend that piece if it's all you've got.
2. Yes, that's acceptable. You should be good to go if the climb is straight up. Be wary of roofs but it looks like you're already aware of that. Starting trad there will be some lessons learned about rope drag lol (see pitch 4 of Nutcracker).
3. Yes people do just carry a sling with a carabiner attached. Many sling it over their shoulder like a messenger bag and it's not too in the way and pretty easy to whip out for a quick extension. You can also have an alpine draw with two carabiners and clip the first to the sling on the cam, even if it's next to a the dangling carabiner for the cam. For racking up I would say to stay consistent and develop a habit for always racking up the same way, that way you always know where a piece is. I need to start doing that myself haha.
Hope these helped
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mbk
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Aug 9, 2019
·
Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jul 2013
· Points: 0
Molly M. wrote:
1. When I was practicing placing nuts I wasn't sure if a placement that could be pulled out with upward force (i.e a light-ish tug upwards) would be considered a bad placement or if it was acceptable given the other placement factors were good (medium-high surface contact with the rock, felt solid and snug when pulled in the direction of fall). I know extending your pieces can prevent the rope from pulling upwards on pieces, but I still felt uneasy about how I could just pull the nut out of place pretty easily. The "strength" of a placement is mostly orthogonal to the "security" of the placement. If you are confident that rope movement won't lift the piece out, then a wiggly piece is fine. But ask yourself... how confident are you? Simply extending an alpine draw may not be enough. I tend to set most nuts pretty firmly unless the line is very straight (as in question #2 below) or they are keyholed in. I would recommend erring on the side of welding them in until you have a very good feel for how rope movement is going to vector the pieces. The nut can't save you if it wiggles out!
2. Is it acceptable to clip the rope directly into a cam or nut when the climb follows a completely straight line on somewhat low angle, or should you always add a quickdraw/alpine draw extension? I understand when you need to extend pieces to keep the rope in a straight line but it didn't seem necessary on this since it was so straight up (except the placements before the roof). I have also seen frequently that one of the biggest mistakes new trad climbers make it not extending their pieces, so I'm curious what most people do one very straight/low angle cracks. The climb was 5.8 crack if anyone is familiar.
If the line is perfectly straight, a draw is not strictly necessary. However, consider that as you move past the piece your hips might shift side to side (even when climbing e.g. a vertical crack). If the placement is bomber and the line is straight, sure. Also if the ledge is really close, it might be wise to skip the draw. I probably skip the draw on fewer than 1 in 20 placements. The cam can't save you if it walks out!
3. I don't really have a frame of reference for how to rack up so I kinda just did what felt intuitive. I had alpine draws and a couple of quickdraws but when placing cams, since they already have a carabiner on one end, I was a little confused on how to add an extension with out it being cumbersome to take one of the carabiners off of the alpine draw. Do people also carry just a sling on one carabiner for extending cams or am I missing something here?
Mostly I just leave the extra carabiner on. Sometime I rack a few extra shoulder slings, each with a single carabiner (e.g. if I intend to combine pitches). If you are trying to go very light you could scavenge the extra biners as you go, but it slows you down both in terms of time to lead the pitch and also when re-racking at the next belay.
I appreciate any and all advice and help, I hope you guys can have empathy for someone who just really wants to fucking trad climb, even if I have to go the self taught route.
I tried the self-taught route and had a lot of nagging fear and self-doubt after a few easy leads. I eventually decided to seek professional instruction. Trad climbing is hard enough without wondering whether you might have misinterpreted something you read in a book.
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Andrew Child
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Aug 9, 2019
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Corvallis, Or
· Joined Sep 2015
· Points: 1,555
mbk wrote: The "strength" of a placement is mostly orthogonal to the "security" of the placement. If you are confident that rope movement won't lift the piece out, then a wiggly piece is fine. But ask yourself... how confident are you? Simply extending an alpine draw may not be enough. I tend to set most nuts pretty firmly unless the line is very straight (as in question #2 below) or they are keyholed in. I would recommend erring on the side of welding them in until you have a very good feel for how rope movement is going to vector the pieces. The nut can't save you if it wiggles out! Just to add to this since this is a noob thread. "Setting" a nut is when you place it then yank it in the expected direction of the fall. Usually the nut gets kinda stuck after you do this and its much less prone to sliding out.
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L Kap
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Aug 9, 2019
·
Boulder, CO
· Joined Apr 2014
· Points: 224
Molly M. wrote: Hello, Hi!
I have a couple of dumb questions about gear placement that I haven't been able to find answers too elsewhere. To give a little background me and my boyfriend are attempting to basically just teach ourselves how to trad climb as I cannot afford to hire a guide or take a course and I do not know anyone where I live that will teach us. I know people might want to call me stupid for trying to get the internet to teach me how to trad climb but in the 4+ years that I have been sport climbing I have never been able get one of my trad climbing buddies to take me out with them. I get it, I don't really enjoy taking beginner climbers out either but now that I have my own rack maybe I can get some real help from real people outside.
If you guys are this self-motivated and coming down the hill anyway, I'd be happy to meet up with you in Golden, or preferably Eldo, and go over a few things. I've been climbing trad for years, happy to pass along what I've learned.
Anyways, until then I'm looking for basic help. We went out to Lookout Mountain in Golden, CO to mess around with gear placements, mock leading etc while safely on top rope.
1. When I was practicing placing nuts I wasn't sure if a placement that could be pulled out with upward force (i.e a light-ish tug upwards) would be considered a bad placement or if it was acceptable given the other placement factors were good (medium-high surface contact with the rock, felt solid and snug when pulled in the direction of fall). I know extending your pieces can prevent the rope from pulling upwards on pieces, but I still felt uneasy about how I could just pull the nut out of place pretty easily.
If your placement is unlikely to walk (because you've extended it) and is bomber in the direction of a fall, then it doesn't matter at all if you can easily remove it upwards. In fact, it's quite nice for your follower if the nut is just lightly set. A nut placement that you can slot into a deep constriction with zero chance of it popping out or walking, but which is still easy to lift out, is pretty much the holy grail.
2. Is it acceptable to clip the rope directly into a cam or nut when the climb follows a completely straight line on somewhat low angle, or should you always add a quickdraw/alpine draw extension? I understand when you need to extend pieces to keep the rope in a straight line but it didn't seem necessary on this since it was so straight up (except the placements before the roof). I have also seen frequently that one of the biggest mistakes new trad climbers make it not extending their pieces, so I'm curious what most people do one very straight/low angle cracks. The climb was 5.8 crack if anyone is familiar.
Some people will clip directly to a cam (not a nut or other passive pro) on a straight-up crack, but I always use some kind of extension. If you don't at least extend with a draw, you get increased chance of your piece walking and increased rope drag. I don't have data to prove this, but I also suspect you're more likely to mangle the wires or stems of your pro if you fall on the piece without the wiggly grace provided by extending.
3. I don't really have a frame of reference for how to rack up so I kinda just did what felt intuitive. I had alpine draws and a couple of quickdraws but when placing cams, since they already have a carabiner on one end, I was a little confused on how to add an extension with out it being cumbersome to take one of the carabiners off of the alpine draw. Do people also carry just a sling on one carabiner for extending cams or am I missing something here?
Many climbers carry some or all of their slings over one shoulder, with a single carabiner on each sling (as Dan B described above, messenger-bag style). The disadvantage is you have to wrangle the sling around your head and pull it off your arm, which is easy to do when you have a good stance but can be tricky if you need to hold on to the wall with the wrong hand. The advantage is you don't have to make space for alpine draws on your harness loops, and you don't have to deal with extra carabiners when you place a cam that already has its own carabiner. This minimizes the weight of carabiners you are carrying around. For example, if I'm doing a pitch where I expect to place 10 pieces of gear, I want to extend them all with slings, and I think at least half of them will be cams, I'll carry 10 slings over my shoulder with one carabiner each, plus five extra carabiners clipped onto each other in chains on my harness. The only time I have to reach for a free carabiner is when I place passive pro. I have saved the weight and clutter of five unnecessary carabiners.
Conversely, some people who prefer alpine draws just go ahead and leave the extra carabiner with the sling when they place a cam. That carabiner is not doing anything useful, but can be easily reracked by your second into an alpine draw again as they clean. All it costs you is a little extra weight to carry around more carabiners than you need.
I appreciate any and all advice and help, I hope you guys can have empathy for someone who just really wants to fucking trad climb, even if I have to go the self taught route.
Thumbs up, thanks for using the resources available to you.
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Hson P
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Aug 9, 2019
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Berkeley, CA
· Joined Nov 2017
· Points: 54
Andrew Child wrote: Just to add to this since this is a noob thread. "Setting" a nut is when you place it then yank it in the expected direction of the fall. Usually the nut gets kinda stuck after you do this and its much less prone to sliding out. Just don’t tug on your nuts too hard.
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Molly Mulcahy
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Aug 10, 2019
·
Bend, OR
· Joined Aug 2012
· Points: 10
Wow, thank you so much to everyone who responded, this has all been so helpful. The 5.8 crack climb that we did was described as "eating gear" so I felt like I was completely missing most of the good placements. I realize now that I was expecting all the pieces to slot in perfectly and stay even when pulling upwards (like many did) but I definitely yarded some of them in too hard and struggled to clean some pieces even with a nut tool. Probably overkill, but now I know :)
mbk wrote: I tried the self-taught route and had a lot of nagging fear and self-doubt after a few easy leads. I eventually decided to seek professional instruction. Trad climbing is hard enough without wondering whether you might have misinterpreted something you read in a book. I felt a lot of self-doubt after this first time out messing around with placements but unfortunately there's no chance of me being able to afford professional instruction anytime soon. Maybe next climbing season! if you guys are this self-motivated and coming down the hill anyway, I'd be happy to meet up with you in Golden, or preferably Eldo, and go over a few things. I've been climbing trad for years, happy to pass along what I've learned. I will definitely take you up on this offer next time we come to the front range if you are serious! We both make excellent belay slaves.
One more questions I forgot in my original post. This crack we were climbing felt very shallow for most of it, and while the gear wasn't sticking out of the crack at all, I still wasn't sure if that affects how good or bad the placement is. There were some spots that were a perfect constriction for a nut but it was also a very shallow part of the crack so I wonder if it would have been better keep going and find a deeper placement?
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Jack Pain
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Aug 10, 2019
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Grand Junction
· Joined Mar 2019
· Points: 10
I take a few Alpine draws for extending nuts or tricams. And then some shoulder length slings with 1 carabiner over my shoulder for extending cams.
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Andrew Braunstein
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Aug 10, 2019
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Oakland
· Joined Feb 2017
· Points: 1
It seems you've gotten a lot of great responses so far, but I'd just like to add that I learned a lot of stuff about trad climbing and placing gear from YouTube. There are videos about racking strategies as well as anchor building and can/nut placements. I'd also look at the comments of videos because people will also discuss if anything in the video seems wrong. The wide boys videos, outdoor research amga videos, and metolious videos with Beth rodden are all really great starting points.
Another thing you should do is as you're cleaning the route, clip a sling to the piece and bounce test it while on toprope. This will allow you to figure out if your placement was actually good.
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Ben Crowell
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Aug 10, 2019
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Fullerton
· Joined Jan 2013
· Points: 331
Molly M. wrote: 1. When I was practicing placing nuts I wasn't sure if a placement that could be pulled out with upward force (i.e a light-ish tug upwards) would be considered a bad placement or if it was acceptable given the other placement factors were good (medium-high surface contact with the rock, felt solid and snug when pulled in the direction of fall). I know extending your pieces can prevent the rope from pulling upwards on pieces, but I still felt uneasy about how I could just pull the nut out of place pretty easily. My usual routine with placing a nut is to extend it with an flexible draw, give it a firm downward tug to set it, and then, with the draw going in the anticipated direction of pull (i.e., usually down) gently shake the draw and see what happens. The shaking is to simulate the kind of motion you're expecting while you're continuing to climb and inadvertently agitating the rope. If this causes the nut to wiggle at all, then usually I would be worried about the placement and try something else. But of course these are just rules of thumb. E.g., if the nut had to be inserted into a slot from above and then lowered into a constriction, then it may be totally secure even if it can be easily wiggled.
Your follower can also tell you what they found when they got to your nut placements. Generally when I follow someone who know what they're doing, 75% of their nut placements are impossible to remove without a nut tool, and the other 25% are firmly in place when I get to them, but can be removed with fingers.
I love tricams and carry a big biner full of them. Often if I can't quite get a nut placement to work to my satisfaction, the next thing I try is a tricam in an active placement.
2. Is it acceptable to clip the rope directly into a cam or nut when the climb follows a completely straight line on somewhat low angle, or should you always add a quickdraw/alpine draw extension? I understand when you need to extend pieces to keep the rope in a straight line but it didn't seem necessary on this since it was so straight up (except the placements before the roof). I have also seen frequently that one of the biggest mistakes new trad climbers make it not extending their pieces, so I'm curious what most people do one very straight/low angle cracks. The climb was 5.8 crack if anyone is familiar. I carry about 10-12 dyneema slings, racked as Alpine draws so they're 1/3 of shoulder length. In addition to those, I usually carry 3-4 double length slings. Just as a rule of thumb or as a matter of habit, I usually extend nuts to full length, not just 1/3 length. With cams, if the route is straight, I would usually use a 1/3-length sling. I've never clipped a biner to a nut without any extension at all, and have never seen anyone do that.
If you're not wanting to extend your placements too much for fear of having too big a lead fall (e.g., hitting a ledge), then the solution is usually just to place additional gear higher up. If there's a crux where you really think you might fall, just sew it up.
3. I don't really have a frame of reference for how to rack up so I kinda just did what felt intuitive. I had alpine draws and a couple of quickdraws but when placing cams, since they already have a carabiner on one end, I was a little confused on how to add an extension with out it being cumbersome to take one of the carabiners off of the alpine draw. Do people also carry just a sling on one carabiner for extending cams or am I missing something here? Some leaders I know who are trying very hard to keep their rack light will do stuff like you're talking about, or rack two of the same type of cam on one biner. Personally when I'm following and come to a cam placement, I prefer to find all three biners there. That way I can immediately put the sling back in an alpine draw and keep everything organized. When you have to clean lots of slings that don't have enough biners to make an alpine draw, you end up with a rat's nest of slings over your shoulder, which is cumbersome while climbing, and also time-consuming to sort out when you finish the pitch. Good luck, and be safe.
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L Kap
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Aug 10, 2019
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Boulder, CO
· Joined Apr 2014
· Points: 224
Molly M. wrote: I will definitely take you up on this offer next time we come to the front range if you are serious! We both make excellent belay slaves. Yes, I'm serious, would be happy to meet up if schedules align. PM me when you're planning a trip down the mountain. No belay slavery needed! It's better for learning if you are leading and asking questions.
One more questions I forgot in my original post. This crack we were climbing felt very shallow for most of it, and while the gear wasn't sticking out of the crack at all, I still wasn't sure if that affects how good or bad the placement is. There were some spots that were a perfect constriction for a nut but it was also a very shallow part of the crack so I wonder if it would have been better keep going and find a deeper placement?
Crack depth is not a primary concern. In fact, depth can be a bad thing if the crack flares toward the back and your piece might walk out of reach or walk open. Even in a deep constricting crack, a less-than-ideal placement can walk itself into an overcammed situation.
As long as you have good rock quality (i.e. force on the gear won't cause the rock to shatter or flake away), good positioning of your piece, low chance of walking, and good surface contact, you're all good.
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Hugo Watt
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Aug 11, 2019
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Southern California
· Joined May 2012
· Points: 15
1. If you are worried about your nuts popping out, just yank on them really hard to "set" them in place. Your follower might not be pleased but they'll be fine they're on top rope
2. I tend to over-extend my pieces which results in longer than needed falls and extra gear to carry and clean. My trad mentor told me to extend everything until I'm experienced enough to know when not to. I think this kind of mentality comes from a fear of cams walking and getting stuck
3. Generally speaking I rack from smallest to biggest, so the smallest and hardest to find pro is in the front. Personally I dislike having slings over my shoulders so I carry a lot of alpine draws
FWIW I also learned and continue to learn a lot of climbing things through books and the internet but its much better to have a more experienced climber walk you through things, especially in the beginning They say the most dangerous period in your climbing career is when you are just starting out.
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Franck Vee
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Aug 11, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2017
· Points: 260
Premature optimization is the root of all evils.That's something we say in computer sciences, but it applies to learning trad as well I believe.
So imo when starting out I would suggest extending all piece - put a draw, at the very least, on every piece. Preferably a non-extended alpine draw (unless that placement in question does warrant an extended draw), not a sport draw. An alpine draw is much better at absorbing any movement from the rope, being more flexible than a sport one.
I was recently told by a much more experience trad climbers that one of the main thing I should work on would be to extend much fewer of my placements. While I agree with the comment and I know I would be a more nimble trad climber if I were to do that, I don't think that's a limiting factor for me at that point in my climbing. However it does buy piece of mind.
So just extend them. When you get to the point where you know if a placement is good or not, and you can put the right size in from the first attempt and you're able to not spend minutes trying to figure out what to place every time, then start thinking about details to save you time & energy like not extending stuff.
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Mark A
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Aug 11, 2019
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Golden, CO
· Joined Jun 2016
· Points: 96
Lots of responses but I'll throw out a few things
Getting Experience:
a) There's lots of people looking for partners all the time. So one idea is to find people to second with, take the time to learn their strategies evaluate their placements, etc. Not always ideal and if you're meeting randoms you have to go in with our own understanding and experience to the day and not just assume they know what is best. Just apply and incorporate what you like.
b) One I liked was finding a sport climb that could also take gear, place your gear and skip bolts where you feel confident in your placements. Just try and maintain enough bolts in there to keep you safe. This lowers your fear a bit, backs you up with something in case of failure.
c) Another is get some aid ladders and do some basic aiding, nothing fancy just clip the ladders to the pieces and climb up. You already went to look out mountain crag, its a great place to setup a top rope and then aid up. You'll be on TR and safe while bounce testing your pieces.
d) videos and such are useful and fun ways (for me at least) to see other people's placements. I like FirstPersonBeta, some of his stuff is brilliant and some of his placements are questionable...so its great!!
Some of your questions:
1) Your first piece should be multi directional (since it can get a side pull from your belayer if the rope goes tight from a fall and also just to prevent a zipper starting up from the bottom), the easiest way to achieve this is to use a cam as your first piece though depending on the placement you can achieve this with other options. Above that you need to mainly think about how the rope will pull on the piece if you fall, both if you fall immediately or if its below other pieces. Nuts can be the most secure pieces out there and are fantastic in the right places, so learning how to manage them is a good idea.
2) Kinda, I can't say I've never done it (usually in a state of desperation) but generally extending every piece is a better idea than clipping directly. Its very easy to get an outward or sideways pull on a piece, even if the line is "straight". It doesn't take much while still close to the piece to get enough of a pull to rotate a cam and pull it out of an ideal downward direction (just drop drag plus a little movement upward and the piece can be pulled to the side which can rotate it):
![]() I generally err on the side of caution and extend just about every piece. Which is also why I've dumped alpine draws for the most part. As I am tired of packing and unpacking them on every piece & pitch. I've switched to rabbit runners (BD rabbit runner) and long draws (Metolious Bravo II). 3) You can have more than one carabiner on the cam, as for this being a waste that is why I use rabbit runners. Each end of the runner is clipped together with a single biner. I clip the basket (loop of sling) to the cam and the biner on the runner to the rope. Extending works similar, it has a large end you unclip from the biner on the runner and it is clipped to cam. I'm always looking for more partners so if you're looking for people to climb with let me know, like L Kap I live in the front range.
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Justin Vandever
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Aug 11, 2019
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Berkeley, CA
· Joined Mar 2008
· Points: 16
Most leaders I've observed will extend a nut with a draw to prevent the rope tension from pulling it out of the crack. It is generally good to set the nut so that it sits snug in place and is not easily lifted out of the placement.
If you are climbing something moderate where it is unlikely that you will fall, you may prefer the peace of mind of extending your pieces to reduce rope drag when higher on the pitch (with the exception of a piece that is protecting a potential ledge fall, in which case you probably don't want to extend). The difference in protection/length of fall between a piece that is clipped direct vs. extended is minimal, especially after you climb above the piece; however, the difference in rope drag you may feel higher on the route due to a non-extended piece may be crippling. It's a judgement call and your partner can give you feedback by observing how the rope runs when cleaning/following so you can learn what type of rock features and rope angles contribute to substantial rope drag. That said, most beginner trad leaders probably extend more than they need to just because they can't see what will cause drag and what won't so they error on the side of caution. It's also common to extend pieces placed below and above a bulge or roof so you don't "pin" the rope against the rock and generate a lot of friction that way. Or if there is a crack splitting a roof, you may want to extend so the rope doesn't run against the cam and push it back into the roof. Many roofs have stuck cams buried deep inside them from ropes pushing them back into cracks.
As for racking, everyone does it differently. I rack small gear on the left and hand size on the right. If I have 3's or 4's I usually put one on each side, towards the back of my harness. Others rack symmetrically so that they have one of each cam, in order, on each side of their harness so they can easily place with either hand, but I find it hard to keep track of what cams I have left when racking that way because then you have to check both sides to look for a specific size instead of just being able to check the exact same spot on your harness every time. I do rack draws symmetrically on each side so I have an equal number ready for either hand. Sometimes you use all the draws from one side so I will redistribute mid-pitch from a rest stance so I have still have draws on both sides.
I commonly have 4-5 over the shoulder slings with a single carabiner ready to go for quick extension, although some climbers don't like this because the slings may hang down too far to be comfortable or get caught in your hair or on a hood, etc.
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Franck Vee
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Aug 12, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2017
· Points: 260
jpvandever wrote: As for racking, everyone does it differently. I rack small gear on the left and hand size on the right. If I have 3's or 4's I usually put one on each side, towards the back of my harness. +1, I also rack this way, and also for the same reason. I always know what I have left, so I don't waste time investigating potential placement I can't do anyways.
To this I would add you may sometimes want to look at the climb first - if I'm going to climb a left-facing corner, I would put the bigger pieces on the other side, just so they don't brush as much against the wall and hinder movement.
If I'm to bring lots of pieces (because I want to sow it up, or it's a really long pitch), I might put a few pieces on a shoulder sling. I prefer to put smaller pieces on the shoulder sling (bigger ones get bulky). Draws on the should sling are also fine, or nuts, I find.
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Sebastian Reichelt
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Aug 12, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Oct 2017
· Points: 0
I think you're taking the right approach and you'll be fine.
Just a few minor points to add to all the good answers above:
Clipping the rope directly to a nut could be dangerous in one particular situation. If the nut is placed so the gate of the biner has to either face the rock or away from it, you never want it to face the rock (same if it's a draw, of course). So with the gate facing outward, you have to clip the rope one particular direction, and be careful not to move over to the other side as that could cause the rope to unclip in a fall (like a backclipped draw). But why would you rack single biners anyway?
For me, the most important part of learning to trad climb was simply to become better and quicker at spotting placements and placing gear. But having experienced people check some of them was valuable too, because they told me things I had missed (like "that rock was actually a bit loose" -- oops). So was falling on gear (very occasionally).
After you've finished leading or mock-leading a pitch, if you want to know how well you extended your pieces, try weighting the rope (after having the belayer switch to it if you were mock-leading). If any piece comes out, you'll know that the same thing would have happened if you had fallen on some piece above it.
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Gunkiemike
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Aug 13, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jul 2009
· Points: 3,762
Sebastian Reichelt wrote: But why would you rack single biners anyway?
To build a gear anchor with nuts at the top of the pitch? To use O&O biners (instead of a locker) at some critical point or at a re-directed belay?
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Justin B
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Aug 13, 2019
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Wheat Ridge, CO
· Joined Aug 2018
· Points: 25
Watch youtube, ridiculous amount of good info by world class trad climbers. It's how I personally learned; not dead yet... When we're not busy trolling one another, mp is a pretty good resource too :)
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dindolino32
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Aug 13, 2019
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Feb 2009
· Points: 25
My wife and I were “self taught”. I bought books and read them, highlighted and read it again. It was Craig leubbens book and it was very helpful. Racking on a shoulder sling is the way to go faster as gear transitions are faster. I put draws and sling on harness. Small gear in front.
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