Climbing just gets more pathetic- we need more misfits and outcasts again

Ty Gilroy wrote: Its interesting how actual rock climbing notorious for being inherently dangerous but gym and sport climbing attracts hoards of weenies and whiners!

Try saying that on reddit for maximum downvotes, could be fun

Perhaps there could be a sub-forum where we can lump all these perceived 'social injustice' issues together so that people who want to talk about climbing can avoid that section altogether.
 I believe that PC culture has gone a bit to far in sanitizing speech and thought, and I'm not really sure why it has to keep coming up in a climbing forum.  
 I'm sure that someone will be offended by this, so I will just make sure to not check back for responses.  

Has an actual Buddhist chimed in yet?

Ty Gilroy wrote: Its interesting how actual rock climbing notorious for being inherently dangerous but gym and sport climbing attracts hoards of weenies and whiners!

Please, you’ve never actually rock climbed a day in your life. 

Can we focus on the actual problem? Namely, novelty holds in the gym? Have you ever grabbed the slick telephone hold and thought “sweet grip!”?

mediocre wrote: Has an actual Buddhist chimed in yet?

I was raised as a Buddhist. 

I have been an atheist for quite a while. But I still identify as a Buddhist culturally, like how there are A LOT of Jews who are atheist.

Artful Dodger wrote:

You're right I am bigoted against hateful people, you believe there is nothing wrong with white culture or patriarchy or Christianity, etc. 

Just like the right wing bigots who say there is "something wrong" with black culture or feminism or Islam, etc. (etc., etc., etc.), you paint with far too broad of a brush.  Two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned.

Khoi wrote:

I was raised as a Buddhist. 

I have been an atheist for quite a while. But I still identify as a Buddhist culturally, like how there are A LOT of Jews who are atheist.

Ah, very good. 

As to your comment about the veteran and the American flag and the Jew and the Star of David I would say that your example is different in that you are using a member of each of these groups of people raising their own concern, in other words the veteran and Jew are speaking up for themselves. This is a case where a woman who admits that she is not a Buddhist is speaking for said group. It's "mansplaining" but by a female SJW- so we'll call it "femalesjw-splaining." Which I find pretty condescending.

Admittedly I am not a man of faith nor am I a veteran, but  I guess I'd just like to think that there is more going on in peoples lives than to get worked up about a climbing hold.

Artful Dodger wrote:

You're right I am bigoted against hateful people, you believe there is nothing wrong with white culture or patriarchy or Christianity, etc.

Well, you have the floor.  What, in your estimation is wrong with white culture (not to mention Christianity- in comparison with all other religions)?  I mean they're all searching for essentially the meaning and a root cause to the existence of human intellect and the causation of the human condition, so, what, other than Christianity being deemed by many, a "white" religion is your point?  Please outline what exactly is wrong with it in your estimation.

 Wtf is white culture, by the way?  Is it the rednecks in pick up trucks?  Is it the yuppies with high paying jobs that they got because their fathers and grandfathers sat on boards of companies or have connections in high places and all live close to Georgetown?  Is it the predominantly white branch of ANTIFA that wear masks and maces people in the streets with impunity in Portland?  Is it the "white nationalists" that carry torches and spout nonsensical gibberish about eugenics and other idiotic horeshit?  Or is it the people, who just like everyone else, had dysfunctional childhoods with one or more drug addict parents that had to find and make their own way in life and turned out to be something, rather than nothing because they chose not to let nurture nor nature predestine them to some shitty existence- and happen to be white?  Is it all these people?  Because of the lack of melanin present in their skin?  

Or could it be that putting a label on a whole subset of people and attaching a connotation of injustice and criminality and discrimination- most of which probably have not engaged in such behavior, based on nothing more than their "race" a bit... idk, what's the word you used... limited?  Or even.. ahem, dare I use the word, racist?  Let's have the exact conversation and substitute the word "white" (that you used) with the word "black" or "brown".  That one word makes everything you said extremely racist, but when the word white is used, somehow it is not, yet white is still used to designate a race.  Hmmm, curious how that works.  Do you see the obvious contradiction here?  Probably not...

 because your line of sight is limited. 

And

 sociopaths do that. 

So where is YOUR argument?  What is "white culture"?  Define it.  

What is wrong with Christianity, so much more than any other religion?

I'm so eager for what I'm sure will be a logical, comprehensive, and facts-based response.

I’m sure this has already been said more then a few times in this discussion but here it is again. Climbing has become mainstream and it’s time to adapt. You can continue to be a misfit or outcast but don’t expect the masses to follow suit. I think we can all survive without the Buddha hold. A hold shaped like that isn’t great for your training anyway. 

mediocre wrote:

Ah, very good. 

As to your comment about the veteran and the American flag and the Jew and the Star of David I would say that your example is different in that you are using a member of each of these groups of people raising their own concern, in other words the veteran and Jew are speaking up for themselves. This is a case where a woman who admits that she is not a Buddhist is speaking for said group. It's "mansplaining" but by a female SJW- so we'll call it "femalesjw-splaining." Which I find pretty condescending.

Admittedly I am not a man of faith nor am I a veteran, but  I guess I'd just like to think that there is more going on in peoples lives than to get worked up about a climbing hold.

I personally reached out to Liz George and thanked her for not taking eGrip's bullshit initial reply as the resolution of the matter, and for calling them out on their cultural misappropriation, and, on their commodification of a religious figure.

Attentive Follower wrote:

Mild ridicule of religion is part of American and European cultures. 

"Mild ridicule (OK, F^%$ it, outright condemnation) of American and European cultures is a part of religion."

There, I fixed that for you.
And yes, it is a culture conflict, both seek control of the mind and so they compete.

Artful Dodger wrote:

You're right I am bigoted against hateful people, you believe there is nothing wrong with white culture or patriarchy or Christianity, etc. And, you also clearly believe in right, left and neutrality. Its only pathetic to you because your line of sight is limited. And yes in this country you can go on believing as you have, sociopaths do that. They go on thinking its the rest of the world that's wrong. Where is your argument, counter argument or narrative to support how I and others like me are clearly wrong? 

Soooo... White culture is inherantly bad?  
They call this racism, BTW, a term you use often enough that I'd have thought you knew what it meant.

It's also called megaolothymia.  And it's dysfunctional, at best.

Khoi wrote:

I personally reached out to Liz George and thanked her for not taking eGrip's bullshit initial reply as the resolution of the matter, and for calling them out on their cultural misappropriation, and, on their commodification of a religious figure.

I don't know whether or not you read the entire article, but a second person was also interviewed, someone who IS Buddhist and is from a culture that is predominantly Buddhist. 

So there is a Buddhist speaking up for themself.

You’re right, I had to go back and read it again. 

Plus gym climbing is dumb.

Artful Dodger wrote:

You're right I am bigoted against hateful people, you believe there is nothing wrong with white culture or patriarchy or Christianity, etc. And, you also clearly believe in right, left and neutrality. Its only pathetic to you because your line of sight is limited. And yes in this country you can go on believing as you have, sociopaths do that. They go on thinking its the rest of the world that's wrong. Where is your argument, counter argument or narrative to support how I and others like me are clearly wrong? 

Lol, you specifically called out "white people" and are now backpedaling. Nobody is buying it. I'm not going to bother responding to your lame strawmen about what I "clearly believe."

Stop trying to associate a novelty climbing hold with mass shootings and other tragedies. I understand that you are desperate to demonstrate your virtues, but your approach is pathetic and in extremely poor taste.

Being offended by this runs counter to the teachings of the Buddha.
A true Buddhist would not allow themselves to be offended by such petty attachment.

Dan Cooksey wrote:

Hahahahaha.

If you want to climb on swastikas, cunts, crucifixes and dicks, be my guest....on the woody in your garage. I don't object to a hold manufacturer making those, anymore than businesses existing that manufacture and sell sex toys or a tattoo parlor carving anything you want, anywhere on your body.

However. As a consumer ​ who frequents climbing gyms? It is simply a stupid decision to use holds that could ​alienate people. For any reason. Which also means a hold manufacturer might ​wish to market broadly, and increase their chances of staying in business. Or ​pursue tiny, niche markets, openly producing whatever the market wishes to purchase.

Bottom line, is, well, the bottom line, plus there is no reason to produce climbing holds in any shape....and no reason not to so long as they function (some specialty holds suck, IMO). Ultimately that is a decision that is made, by the producer, the gym, and those of us who choose which gym to go to and vote with our dollars...or our feet.

Myself? Yes, I would say something if I thought the gym was doing something offensive or stupid....or, conversely, I really liked something they tried out. And yes, if I thought it was truly offensive, I would make an appropriate amount of noise to the appropriate people including upstream.

I happen to agree about the Buddha hold, although it isn't very egregious, to my long lived perspective. It is allowed, in our country, to express opinions, after all. Businesses can choose to listen....or not.

......................

The picture above? So what....

Except I wonder about a gym with employees who are still in 7th grade.

Tiny things can make customers choose to go elsewhere. And you may never know why someone just quietly walks out the door.

Best, Helen

Kali would be a good hold 

I think whining about being offended is priveledged 'white culture'.  

"Thank you very much for inviting me in, but l would like to change you, please".

Some scientists cure cancer, some scientists make watermelons seedless.  Some doctors volunteer in 3rd world countries.  Some people take their stand making luxury places more comfortable.