Black Diamond cuts 70 positions and transitions manufacturing out of Utah

AmericanGearGuide wrote:

That's right. There are still plenty of US built 5.10 climbing shoes on the shelves but Adidas has now outsourced their manufacturing. More to remove... I think I'll stick with privately owned La Sportiva now.

"La Sportiva brand products sold in North America are manufactured in six factories. Our factories in Italy manufacture about 60% of our products. Factories in China and Vietnam manufacture 28% and 12% respectively, but this number is always changing." 

- La Sportiva FAQ page

BillS wrote:

That's exactly it - and that's the difference between a commodity product that doesn't earn squat and something truly market changing - like a double axle cam that doesn't fall apart.

I see this John Walbrecht guy as a useless pretty boy about to drive BD and his new Porsche right off a cliff, just as he did with the companies he was involved in before BD.  

Black Diamond - the new fashion design company - along with the 1000-some others out there doing exactly the same thing.

What companies did he drive off a cliff?

Marc801 C wrote:

"La Sportiva brand products sold in North America are manufactured in six factories. Our factories in Italy manufacture about 60% of our products. Factories in China and Vietnam manufacture 28% and 12% respectively, but this number is always changing." 

- La Sportiva FAQ page

Yep, I own a pair of Italian made La Sportiva Mythos that fit my narrow feet better than anything else I've found. I like that La Sportiva and Scarpa still strongly support their local roots.

BillS wrote:

That's exactly it - and that's the difference between a commodity product that doesn't earn squat and something truly market changing

Apple, Nike, Patagonia, and Boeing (and many others) also outsource their manufacturing, much of it to Asia.  It would be really difficult to argue that these companies aren't leaders in their markets, and they seem to be earning quite a bit more than "squat."

If you're going to tilt at windmills, it might be valuable to provide some concrete examples of this actually being a problem, instead of generalized xenophobic claims about Asia being bad.

Fast Eddie McBradish wrote:

What companies did he drive off a cliff?

I'm curious as well. Here's his Bloomberg profile:

https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=291266535&privcapId=25301852

AmericanGearGuide wrote:This is why I prefer local private companies.

If a person isn’t buying food from non-publicly-traded companies, then their bread is likely 17% sawdust.

By law, publicly-traded companies must do everything and anything that is legal, to deliver results to shareholders.  And according to the law, they can use fillers in their food, including sawdust, so they must.  Or so the theory goes.

Just curious, but have any of you worked in say metal finishing? I did just a little over two weeks at a temp job here in town that did acid etching and anodizing. Let me tell you boys and girls, it fucking sucks to high heaven. If the acid smells don't get you, the tireless pace and cracking of the whip at your heels will. It was one of the worst, thankless jobs I have ever done. And really, most production work like that sucks donkey balls. So send that shit out of the country. I for one give not one fuck about those jobs. 

AmericanGearGuide wrote:

Yep, I own a pair of Italian made La Sportiva Mythos that fit my narrow feet better than anything else I've found. I like that La Sportiva and Scarpa still strongly support their local roots.

Only their climbing shoes and mountaineering boots are made in Italy. Running, approach, and hiking product is manufactured in Asia. I send my work to some of the same factories that they are at. 

BTW The best technical clothing production sewers are in Asia. If they are REAL good they're doing development and warranty work inside of companies like TNF, Patagonia, or Arc'teryx. America probably has only a handful of people that can match their skills, again outside of aerospace. Fashion houses also have super high level seamstresses but not doing technical stuff, can't just throw pins into a GTX jacket while you sew it.    

BillS wrote:

No they don’t - their factories are owned and operated from within - and where they are located is indeed irrelevant.  You and the dopes who liked your post have incredibly poor reading comprehension.

Apple phones are assembled by Foxconn, which is a completely different company not owned by them: lifewire.com/where-is-the-i…

Furthermore, all of the components in iphones are sourced from subcontractors, such as Samsung, ADI, and Qualcomm.  Apple manufactures literally nothing.

Boeing depends on a large network of suppliers who do significant manufacturing and assembly of their components and aircraft sections.  This includes, but is not limited to, Spirit Aerosystems, ATK, and others.  Boeing generally owns the designs, but depends on subcontractors to make the parts to their specs (you know, kind of like BD will be doing).

You might want to spend 2 minutes using Google before calling people "dopes."

Also, do you want to comment on the other industry leading companies that I cited who also outsource, or ignore those and just focus on the ones you erroneously think don't?  Even if you were right about Apple and Boeing (and you aren't), Nike, Patagonia, Cisco, IBM, and others clearly show your claims about outsouring to be incorrect.

The Raven wrote: Do they not teach researching a subject in school anymore?

No, actually they don't.  Most students entering universities today believe that Google is a primary database for research.  Off topic, but just answering your basic question.

Offshoring manufacturing out of financial considerations is nothing new.  No surprise there.

However, this is a true shame:  "These recalls were largely the result of moving carabiner production from BD China to BD U.S. "

Jim Titt wrote:

Get real and read between the lines, it´s not loads of friendly Canadians sewing your jacket together. It´s making prototypes and display lines in Canada before shipping production out to the sweat-shops they own in Bangladesh, Vietnam, Indonesia and the usual places where people work for $10 a day. 450 employees could just cope with administering the company, sales and product development, production is elsewhere (Arcteryx is part of a large Finnish sporting goods group with a turnover of a couple of billion $ per year, not some nice little hometown Canadian company interested in the welfare of it´s citizens). If the numbers don´t work then Amer Sports will pull the plug.

Couple things in defense of Arcteryx: 

The Arc'one facility is the factory responsible for production in Canada so lumping in "administering the company, sales, and product development" is incorrect as those jobs are in the HQ and Design Center, located in North Vancouver. The 450 number is strictly referring to manufacturing jobs. They make a lot of super high quality stuff there, including goretex capes for homeless people in Vancouver. Also it is definitely wrong to say that Arcteryx doesn't care about the welfare if Canadians because they are owned by Amer. It would be more accurate to assert that the recent buyers of Amer are less concerned but that's a given.
The quality of Arcteryx products made overseas is also extremely high. The quality control teams are borderline obsessive to a fault. No one is perfect but arcteryx is among the best quality apparel you can get

Aaron Felder wrote:

Couple things in defense of Arcteryx: 

The Arc'one facility is the factory responsible for production in Canada so lumping in "administering the company, sales, and product development" is incorrect as those jobs are in the HQ and Design Center, located in North Vancouver. The 450 number is strictly referring to manufacturing jobs. They make a lot of super high quality stuff there, including goretex capes for homeless people in Vancouver. 

A handful of goretex capes as a publicity stunt, such giving back. Shall we talk about their refusal to use any recycled materials in any of their clothing, hell even nike and Adidas up cycle, arc simply don't care. 

Also it is definitely wrong to say that Arcteryx doesn't care about the welfare if Canadians because they are owned by Amer. It would be more accurate to assert that the recent buyers of Amer are less concerned but that's a given.

Anta sports is the biggest sporting goods company in China if you think they give a shit about Canadians you're sorely mistaken. 

The quality of Arcteryx products made overseas is also extremely high. The quality control teams are borderline obsessive to a fault. No one is perfect but arcteryx is among the best quality apparel you can get

This quite simply isn't true, there are plenty of other highend brand who's quality control is top notch and will give you a better warranty experience. Patagonia and mountain equipment being 2 obvious ones and in recent years TNF has released some great stuff in their summit series. All top quality and allot of it coming out of the same factories in veitnam. 

The only advantage arc have over the rest is their hardshell because they really do understand the whole idea of minimal design and they develop their own face fabrics unlike anyone else who uses gore, (their may be a few exceptions). This being said that's only if you buy into the whole gaurenteed to keep you dry side of things. 

Seb, to the first point, the idea behind not using recycled materials is that they don’t believe they can make a high quality product with those materials. Agree or no I am just explaining what I think the reasoning is. I would also argue that the rock solid program is helping in that regard. That is neither here nor there though. Any company that does anything of social value will let people know about it. Let’s not argue the existence of altruism on an MP forum. My original point was to explain that Mr Titt was wrong about his assumptions about what the 450 number meant. That is all.

I agree that Anta is probably less concerned about the welfare of Canadians than Arcteryx is, that is why I said exactly that. I’m talking about the people who run arcterx in Vancouver. They care about the welfare of Canadians.

I said among the best. I know other companies make excellent product and have excellent customer service. So does arcteryx. So we agree that a company can make excellent gear out of Asia that is equal to that made in North America. 

that guy named seb wrote: A handful of goretex capes as a publicity stunt, such giving back. Shall we talk about their refusal to use any recycled materials in any of their clothing, hell even nike and Adidas up cycle, arc simply don't care.
Anta sports is the biggest sporting goods company in China if you think they give a shit about Canadians you're sorely mistaken.

This quite simply isn't true, there are plenty of other highend brand who's quality control is top notch and will give you a better warranty experience. Patagonia and mountain equipment being 2 obvious ones and in recent years TNF has released some great stuff in their summit series. All top quality and allot of it coming out of the same factories in veitnam. 

The only advantage arc have over the rest is their hardshell because they really do understand the whole idea of minimal design and they develop their own face fabrics unlike anyone else who uses gore, (their may be a few exceptions). This being said that's only if you buy into the whole gaurenteed to keep you dry side of things. 

You are aware that TNF entire warranty dept in Europe just disappeared for a few months earlier this year? As in (just replace faulty product with more of the same shit and destroy the leftovers). They aren’t the only company that works this way with faulty product. Nearly ALL of it gets destroyed. Salomon (Amer Sports) is one of the worst offenders. 

Credit to them (TNF) they are now using recycled materials at a scale that no other outdoor company is (including Patagonia) but as a whole, this group of outdoor brands has a hell of a long way to go before they can be considered substantially different than the fashion business (which is depressing). 

BillS wrote:The implication you are making that it possible for a company like Boeing to shop the 3rd world for someone to do final integration on airplanes is 100% ignorant and retarded - something only a Google Scholar such as yourself would post .

Seriously?  "Retarded"?  How old are you?

I never, not once, suggested that Boeing would do final integration in the third world.  I simply pointed out that they outsource manufacturing, which you said doesn't work (and it obviously does, in some cases).  Airbus, by the way, does the exact same thing (with many of the same suppliers as Boeing, which will really confound your IP arguments).

With regard to being a "Google Scholar," I have designed and installed equipment worth 10's of millions of dollars into 3rd party manufacturers that make parts for Boeing, Airbus, and other aerospace manufacturers, and spent probably several years of cumulative time in those facilities.  How much personal experience do you have with the aerospace supply chain?

 Nike and such are clothing makers, non critical, who cares products that anyone can make.  

You mean like Black Diamond?

You claim that a company cannot be "truly market changing" if they outsource.  If you think that Nike isn't leading an entire industry, you don't know much about footwear or apparel history.

Point is this - BD just threw in the towel and is now outsourcing their core IP.  I don’t see that going well for them. 

Seems to be working fine for Apple, now that you've finally acknowledged that they don't make their own stuff and you had no idea what you were talking about.

By the way, I think we're still waiting for you to tell us about the other companies that John Walbrecht  "drove off a cliff."

Didnt they already try moving oversees and then all kinds of shit went south and they issued MASSIVE recalls?

Matt Pierce wrote: Didnt they already try moving oversees and then all kinds of shit went south and they issued MASSIVE recalls?

The timeline was that they moved manufacturing back to SLC in 2015, and then had several recalls in 2016.  Here's the list of BD recalls over the years (not that many overall, really):

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/recalls.html

And here's an article about moving production back to SLC in 2015:

https://loadoutroom.com/16932/black-diamond-back-in-the-usa-summer-outdoor-retailer-2015-tommy-caldwell-dawn-wall/

So arguably the recalls were the result of manufacturing in the USA instead of China, although the reality is that it's really difficult to move your entire manufacturing line from anywhere to anywhere and it's amazing that they accomplished that with as minimal disruptions as they did.  It's a bummer that they are doing a complete 180 now, only a few years later, and moving the manufacturing back offshore.

Evan18 wrote: All I will say- the amount opinions here on international supply chain for manufactured goods that are completely lacking any factual basis and either completely xenophobic, just plain wrong and/or ignorant is massively impressive, even for the people that comment on MP forums. Keep it up ya'll- always fun to burn a few moments reading the inane shit that people think is right and actually care to write out and express an opinion on.

I’ve been lurking in this thread b/c I honestly don’t know the first thing about how companies like BD (Clarus) conduct their business. I’ll agree with you that this threads is speculating all over the place.

Do you care to shed some light on the topic? Or do you just get off of telling everyone they’re ignorant?