Bullying on Mountain Project

master gumby wrote:

If someone is stronger at the gym and a "regular" and then rips into someone for having fun, who is weaker and its their first time to the gym, you would not constitute this as bullying?

This statement is way too broad and lack nuance in order to say if it is bullying or not. 

From Wikipedia:Bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or socialpower. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict.[1] There is no universal definition of bullying. It is widely agreed upon that bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior characterized by the following three minimum criteria: (1) hostile intent, (2) imbalance of power, and (3) repetition over a period of time.[2]Bullying may thus be defined as the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another individual, physically, mentally, or emotionally.

According to this definition, the boulderer might have been aggressive and trying to intimidate Bob, or he may have been trying to educate him and the tone was taken out of context. Let's say the boulderer meant to make Bob feel bad; was this threatening or abusive? It was unnecessarily rude, but the encounter doesn't fit the definition of bullying

Brent Kelly wrote: At around 13 years old, I was playing basketball with a group of 11-14 year olds in the local park. I lived down the street and was out and about for some R&R. Didn't know the kids, but some looked familiar enough, so I asked if I could join in and play too. "Sure!" (it's worth noting that I'm pretty tall and had a fairly distinct height advantage over the other kids).

None of us are very good at the game so, there's a bit of an absurd atmosphere as we needle each other over "airballs", etc.

Everyone was having a great time, playing very enthusiastically, shouting "I'm open!" and "Cover him!", etc. One kid in particular was shouting with a particularly hard-to-understand voice.Difficult to decipher what he was saying. In hindsight, me being inherently competitive-but-fun-loving, I suppose I'm partly just confused and perplexed that he isn't contributing more to the game, partly just looking to join in on the general sense of buffoonery. So I assume that the kid with the odd voice is doing some goofy shtick.

5 or so more minutes of play, and we're not scoring as many baskets as would make me feel successful. The goofy voiced kid continues to do what he's doing. I'm frustrated and don't think it's quite as funny anymore, so the next time he calls out for the ball, I impulsively turn to him and shout "I can't understand you". I have a smile on my face and in my voice, I vaguely recall, but palpable frustration in my tone. Nobody else chimes in, and we continue play, until a few moments later, the goofy voiced kid shouts in unintelligible sounds once again. I'm no longer entertained.

"No one can understand you! Stop being funny!" I shout.

Surprisingly to me, the game instantly deflates. A couple people walk off. Aggressive, enjoyable play dwindles to a few shots tossed up here and there.

Now I'm even more frustrated. Turn to a one of the remaining kids to complain: "Man this sucks! We were having a great game until that kid took it too far."

"You know he's deaf, right?" I'm kindly informed.

Turns out he's the younger brother of the girl I have a crush on.

--

In my personal experience, bullies are usually idiots. Not exclusively. But it does seem to be a prerequisite.

Magpie, you pretty much nailed it, in my opinion. But I think there's a very fine line between "Asshole" and "Bully" that comes down to some esoteric measure of intent, awareness, and persistence. Best to avoid being an asshole or bully altogether, abilities permitting.

P.S. I've previously found a linguistic review of the word, especially how it relates to Roosevelt's coining/popularizing of the phrase "Bully Pulpit" to be particularly enlightening.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/bully
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bully_pulpit

P.P.S. Ben Pellerin,
You're invited to rewatch Cowboy Bebop S1E8 "Waltz for Venus".

Intent, awareness and persistence pretty much nails it. Being an asshole says more about the person slinging shit than the recipient.

Your experience with the deaf kid was a great learning experience, and that boy was lucky to have friends who cared. You were lucky that they gently informed you, and that they understood that you were not intending to be cruel. I hope I was not unknowingly cruel to anyone when I was 13, but at that age, who knows?

An attractive climber woman openly laughed at my rack of tricams once.

I feel better. Thanks.

This forum topic makes me want to bully you for some reason.   

I was once subjected to a kid’s birthday party assaulting my ears while I was trying to work the pink one in the corner. Now I require hearing aids and 48 hour advance notice of children in my gym. 

Paul Morrison wrote:

No real man or woman climbs in a gym.

Let’s not gender this-

“No real person climbs in a gym.”

    

To OP:  I think climbers are by far better at not bulling each other, as compared to other sports groups.  The vast majority of climbers I see are supportive and considerate of everyone around them when they climb.  If you focus your said research on only the negative instances when bullying exists, you risk skewing your conclusion, and by extension, painting the whole climbing community in that light. Please consider this.

master gumby wrote: Looking for stories about being marginalized, bullied, sexism, or other egregious acts that have happened to you or that you have witnessed at a climbing gym.

I have witnessed a few such occurrences recently and would like to start compiling a list of stories and will be conducting research on the subject later this year. At this point I am just in the "discovery" phase and want to confirm a stories of this happening in areas outside of Southern California before I continue.

If some of the ladies of mountain project feel this post would gain better traction in the women's forum, I am happy to switch.

I climbed with my shirt off and I could tell that all the other men felt lesser by comparison.  Does that help?  

I was at the gym and this person, we'll call him Bob, was climbing and they were smiling ear to ear enjoying it. Of course mind you Bob was using all of the holds at his disposal, so called "rainbow" climbing. Then some boulderer without a shirt on walks up and starts ripping Bob for saying he climbed "the route" stating "you didn't climb it because you used different colored holds. As sadness grew on Bob's face he didn't understand. No one said anything or did anything about the guy being a dick ripping Bob a new one. Later on we hear from his friend who brought him to the gym that he was color blind and had no idea why the guy was being a jerk.

I am of two minds about this: 1) when you grow up you will realize, you cannot be bullied anymore, because this is America and you can do whatever you want, including telling some ahole to F"off.  2) I will take "dramatized sh*t that never happened" for $200 Alex.

And, virtue signaling is the most pathetic of all hobbies.

Brent Kelly wrote: At around 13 years old, I was playing basketball with a group of 11-14 year olds in the local park. I lived down the street and was out and about for some R&R. Didn't know the kids, but some looked familiar enough, so I asked if I could join in and play too. "Sure!" (it's worth noting that I'm pretty tall and had a fairly distinct height advantage over the other kids).

None of us are very good at the game so, there's a bit of an absurd atmosphere as we needle each other over "airballs", etc.

Everyone was having a great time, playing very enthusiastically, shouting "I'm open!" and "Cover him!", etc. One kid in particular was shouting with a particularly hard-to-understand voice.Difficult to decipher what he was saying. In hindsight, me being inherently competitive-but-fun-loving, I suppose I'm partly just confused and perplexed that he isn't contributing more to the game, partly just looking to join in on the general sense of buffoonery. So I assume that the kid with the odd voice is doing some goofy shtick.

5 or so more minutes of play, and we're not scoring as many baskets as would make me feel successful. The goofy voiced kid continues to do what he's doing. I'm frustrated and don't think it's quite as funny anymore, so the next time he calls out for the ball, I impulsively turn to him and shout "I can't understand you". I have a smile on my face and in my voice, I vaguely recall, but palpable frustration in my tone. Nobody else chimes in, and we continue play, until a few moments later, the goofy voiced kid shouts in unintelligible sounds once again. I'm no longer entertained.

"No one can understand you! Stop being funny!" I shout.

Surprisingly to me, the game instantly deflates. A couple people walk off. Aggressive, enjoyable play dwindles to a few shots tossed up here and there.

Now I'm even more frustrated. Turn to a one of the remaining kids to complain: "Man this sucks! We were having a great game until that kid took it too far."

"You know he's deaf, right?" I'm kindly informed.

Turns out he's the younger brother of the girl I have a crush on.

--

In my personal experience, bullies are usually idiots. Not exclusively. But it does seem to be a prerequisite.

Magpie, you pretty much nailed it, in my opinion. But I think there's a very fine line between "Asshole" and "Bully" that comes down to some esoteric measure of intent, awareness, and persistence. Best to avoid being an asshole or bully altogether, abilities permitting.

P.S. I've previously found a linguistic review of the word, especially how it relates to Roosevelt's coining/popularizing of the phrase "Bully Pulpit" to be particularly enlightening.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/bully
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bully_pulpit

P.P.S. Ben Pellerin,
You're invited to rewatch Cowboy Bebop S1E8 "Waltz for Venus".

I really enjoyed reading this.  It was very well written and made me feel as though I was on the court with you all. Thanks! 

I got bullied on Supertopo because I am a Republican

djh860 wrote:

I climbed with my shirt off and I could tell that all the other men felt lesser by comparison.  Does that help?  

But I was on a 5.11 with a trick move on it and I couldn’t send.  We I lowered down the woman who belayed me said “if you can’t climb 5.11 you can’t climb with your shirt off”. Does that help?

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." E.V. 1935-ish. Just saying. 

J-- Kaiser wrote: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." E.V. 1935-ish. Just saying. 

Oh I think it’s possible. 

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwain wrote: I got bullied on Supertopo because I am a Republican

I’m sorry.

master gumby wrote:

Thanks Brent for attempting to get the thread back on track. Apparently when posting about new research surrounding bullying in climbing gyms asking for stories, that gives people the license to start bullying you.... go figure.

I will start by giving a story that I have witnessed a few weeks ago.

I was at the gym and this person, we'll call him Bob, was climbing and they were smiling ear to ear enjoying it. Of course mind you Bob was using all of the holds at his disposal, so called "rainbow" climbing. Then some boulderer without a shirt on walks up and starts ripping Bob for saying he climbed "the route" stating "you didn't climb it because you used different colored holds. As sadness grew on Bob's face he didn't understand. No one said anything or did anything about the guy being a dick ripping Bob a new one. Later on we hear from his friend who brought him to the gym that he was color blind and had no idea why the guy was being a jerk.

Is being factual and being a jerk the same as bullying? ‘Cause I spent five years in grad school with people like that. And I’m better off for it. Bullying sucks but people also need to learn to be resilient.

one time i was climping and someone was seeing me and was like hey you are you good and i was like yeah and they said LOL jk i suck and i didnt like it so then i went to go do more climping and i look down and they haev my water botle and are saying things like come n get it and i got ur stuff now what haha and i didnt like that either so i went to the desk and said they were bullying me n they laughed

I've been bullied for climbing with a backpack and using cordelettes for anchors and practicing how to escape the belay without cross-loading any carabiners, and I only use that last term's long form because I am woke and do not want to offend anyone of Mexican descent.

Bullying is what happens when toxic masculinity crosses the line. 

mediocre wrote: Bullying is what happens when toxic masculinity crosses the line. 

Because girls *never* bully.