Rock & Ice Article on Being Dropped by Belayer

Robert S wrote:

Whatever.

The author did some really dumb shit.

Yes, he seems like a solid climber, but that doesn't mean he's smart. Gyms now produce strong climbers who have no fucking clue what they're doing outdoors.

Suing the stranger guy who dropped you when you were leading at your limit and you never made sure he knew what he was doing, and in a gym no less, is just WTF.

If anything the fact that you’re in a gym should guarantee that he has a belay certification which granted means not so much given the people I’ve seen pass gym certification; but to say the lesson from this is to never ever climb with strangers doesn’t really work. Your best friend could drop you just as easy as a stranger if they’re not competent belayers and everyone who does belay you was at one point a stranger/new climber. 

Always carry some gear

Travis S wrote:

.....but to say the lesson from this is to never ever climb with strangers doesn’t really work....

Nobody said that.  Lesson is don’t climb at your limits sight unseen.   Pay attention and adjust accordingly.  
...and keep fuckin lawyers out of it. 

Chris Kalman wrote: 
It's easy from an outside perspective to say "that was dumb, I would never do that, it will never happen to me." But it's not the accident you can foresee that gets you, it's the one you can't. If all you get out of every climbing accident story you read is "that will never happen to me," you're missing the most important lesson of all: humility. Accidents can happen to anyone. Unless of course you spends more time on internet forums than actually climbing; then you're probably pretty safe to assume they won't happen to you.

I think you are misreading people. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened to me. I'm saying it's a douche move to blame someone else AFTER it happens to you and try to sue them and/or extract a settlement. I mean, really, we're choosing to engage in a totally optional, somewhat frivolous hobby that involves considerable physical danger. But you're going to SUE someone when you get hurt? Come on.

Sounds like you all would be just fine if I dropped you and walked away. Or at least it would not cost me any money.  Right?

Travis S wrote:

If anything the fact that you’re in a gym should guarantee that he has a belay certification which granted means not so much given the people I’ve seen pass gym certification; but to say the lesson from this is to never ever climb with strangers doesn’t really work. Your best friend could drop you just as easy as a stranger if they’re not competent belayers and everyone who does belay you was at one point a stranger/new climber. 

I didn't say that. I've let strangers belay me, too, and have even let first-timers belay me. But I don't climb anywhere close to my limit with them and I monitor them the entire time.

And for the record, if I dropped someone and s/he got hurt, I would offer to pay the bills or at least help with them to the best of my ability. But I really doubt I would sue someone who dropped me.

Bill Lawry wrote:

Good luck with that attitude.  There is a large dose of truth in what you are saying. And there is much more to the story. 

I read his whole story. What is the more to it that might change my and others' assessment of his decisions and his attitude? Genuinely asking, not arguing.

Robert S wrote:

I read his whole story. What is the more to it that might change my and others' assessment of his decisions and his attitude? Genuinely asking, not arguing.

Essentially  he chose the way of negotiating with his belayer. The fact that he considered suing when he had heard nothing from the belayer does not mean very much to me. It is the actual action that matters.

Scott Biegert wrote:

Well I got dropped about 2 weeks ago and not going after my belayer for money. 

Was it much like what happened to Chris?

Yes.  Both ways.

I mean, it seems desperate (at best) to drop someone and never check whether they need financial help with medical care. 

Just curious. Show of hands. If you asked someone to give you a spotting hand doing something like, say, a back flip. And you didn't make your back flip and they failed to spot you properly, resulting in injury. Would you sue your spotter? 

Scott Biegert wrote:  If the belayer gets hurt when the climber falls who pays the bill?

Good point. Or, as it seems to be in the R&I story, when the belayer gets PTSD from the climber falling, who pays those bills? 

The guy was in charge of safety for Outward Bound. He should have seen a novice from a mile a way.

Señor Arroz wrote: Just curious. Show of hands. If you asked someone to give you a spotting hand doing something like, say, a back flip. And you didn't make your back flip and they failed to spot you properly, resulting in injury. Would you sue your spotter? 

What is it with MP and bogus analogies?

Cron wrote:

What is it with MP and bogus analogies?

So you think it was more like a handspring?

Señor Arroz wrote: Just curious. Show of hands. If you asked someone to give you a spotting hand doing something like, say, a back flip. And you didn't make your back flip and they failed to spot you properly, resulting in injury. Would you sue your spotter? 

It is an interesting question. I don’t have a good answer. 

Funny though.  My wife outright refuses to spot me. 

Eye opening article. I’m lucky to climb in a small gym that rigorously tests new belayers over multiple sessions. Even so I watch anyone with the little orange tag that signifies having passed the test very closely. They have all appeared competent. Even so, there are only a few I would trust with me on the sharp end. Those are the ones I’ve watched belay leaders many times and I’m comfortable with what I’ve seen. I simply won’t trust a stranger in any way shape or form. There’s too little room for error even in the gym. Period.