Is Aid Climbing Not Actual Climbing?

Tradiban wrote:

Nope, she didn't "climb" it. Personally I feel that clipping one bolt or using gear to ascend or stop a fall invalidates an "ascent". 

Climbing is supposed to be in conjunction with nature and using anything permanent or pulling on gear is the complete opposite and any such activity should stay in a gym.

So you've just invalidated every single big wall route in Yosemite.

Miserable fail from your usual level of trolling.

Marc801 C wrote:

So you've just invalidated every single big wall route in Yosemite.

Miserable fail from your usual level of trolling.

Yes, unfortunately I don't consider those to be valid ascents. True, my ethos would eliminate the possibility of many many climbs but I don't think drilling holes in rocks fits into climbing, and pulling on gear is just plain cheating.

Tradiban wrote:

Yes, unfortunately I don't consider those to be valid ascents. True, my ethos would eliminate the possibility of many many climbs but I don't think drilling holes in rocks fits into climbing, and pulling on gear is just plain cheating.

Yet you actively lobby for retrobolting? Being a contrarian, your favorite approach to most topics, makes no sense if you contradict yourself as well.

The Raven wrote:

Yet you actively lobby for retrobolting? Being a contrarian, your favorite approach to most topics, makes no sense if you contradict yourself as well.

Lol, that was an elaborate joke. 

The official decree of the Tradiban is that all permanent climbing hardware should be removed everywhere.

Brock Jones wrote: People who think aid climbing is not climbing have never climbed hard aid. By far the scariest and most mentally difficult climbing I've done has been aid. Also some of the most physically difficult climbing I've done is aid, since big wall climbing usually has a significant amount of aid involved and big walls are exhausting. I'd imagine most people who talk crap on aid climbing have never actually aided, and if they did they would lose their crap on anything harder than C1.

+1. 

After just a little dabbling in aid, I agree 100%. I guess many who have not tried aid might confuse it with "french freeing" on bolt ladders. Most aid is so much more complex and way harder than this.

Ian White wrote:  ... but I've gotten some weird looks and comments from single pitch climbers ...

Maybe "the looks" are not about the aiding part. Maybe it is about the August time frame? Roasting on a sun baked rock for days or lazily hanging out belaying under a shady tree on single pitches with an occasional dip in a nearby creek. And the choice  is ...?

Marc801 C wrote:

So you've just invalidated every single big wall route in Yosemite.

Miserable fail from your usual level of trolling.

Tommy Caldwell?

Adam Isaacs wrote: aid climbing is different than jumaring ropes

This. People hate on her because she didn‘t aid climb it. She jumared up the rope. I‘ve never aidclimbed but it can be really hard (and scary) but there is no danger and not much technical prowess involved in ascending a rope. 

Artful Dodger wrote: Not your ethos Tradiban, its your pathos. You have them mixed up.

Seriously though, imagine a world with no bolts, I think it would solve alot of climbing's problems.

If someone considers themselves "environmental" or practices LNT they can't really clip bolts and stick to their ethics at the same time.

Tradiban the useless divisive  troll. 

Imagine a world without trolls... 

master gumby wrote: 

Tommy Caldwell?

I'm guessing you're referring to the Dawn Wall?

• the protection bolts were placed on aid
• a huge part of the route is Mescalito and not the Wall of Early Morning Light (aka the original Dawn Wall) - a hairball big wall aid route at the time it was established. When Tommy was figuring out how to free the route, he called it "The Mescalito Project"

What's up Ian.  Looks like you riled up the trolls with your post.  

The question of "aiding the Nose" is not usually a binary yes or no.  Unless you flash 5.14a you'll aid some and you'll free some.  Last year on the Nose my partner and I freed all the 5.9 and a lot of the 5.10. We pulled on some gear, and aided the hard stuff.  There were perhaps 5 pitches of full aid and the rest of the pitches were split between french free and fully free. It was an absolutely glorious 3 days worth of climbing that I am so grateful to have been a part of.  Hope the weather gods smile on you.  Be safe and enjoy.

Who cares?

I mean climbs should be done primarily for yourself. If you consider what you're doing climbing, and you can honestly go back home/to camp after a day of doing *whatever style* and feel satisfied of your efforts, then that should be most of what one needs.

Not valid if you're going to be a pro climber, in which case there has to be some standard. But to me if you're defying gravity using technical moves you're climbing. That's not to say they're all equal - of course free climbing a given route deserves more credit than aiding half of it, just as fee soloing it would be on another level. But I think those things are pretty clear in the community, just as a flash gets more credit than a redpoint.

In other words - I think the entry point as to what is "climbing" can be pretty broad. That's why we have styles to further precise what each is worth...

Aid climbing is, when done well, prosthetic free climbing.

Ten year old jugging the Nose,... yawn.

After  reading Jim Hersons trip repoprts of his kids jumarless on half dome and the nose a 10yr old jugging for a record seems weak. ​http://www.jimherson.com/climbing/tr/jniad-connor.html​​​ 

Russ Walling wrote:HTFU people!  Just because your gym is air conditioned....

LOL, Russ, I was in town less than 12 hours and I WAS climbing at my air-conditioned gym. I guess I was hasty to advise against the Valley in August since I’ve never tried it. 

I guess this thread questions whether or not Ammon McNeely is a legit climber.

And a second question is whether a dad happily babysitting his kiddo up El cap is a worthy record. Lol..I know several single moms who might consider it a record.

Maureen Maguire wrote: I guess this thread questions whether or not Ammon McNeely is a legit climber.

And a second question is whether a dad happily babysitting his kiddo up El cap is a worthy record. Lol..I know several single moms who might consider it a record.

What? No one is questioning if Ammon is a “legit” climber. Why call him out specifically, you saw him aid climbing in a movie once? Certainly more accomplished than myself and 99% of folks who climb, aid or free. 

A 10 year old jumaring up the nose with her dad is impressive. Throw in cleaning gear and the fact that she led any of pitches is even more so. Whether it is more of a climbing achievement or a parenting achievement is debatable, but either way it’s worth being impressed by. 

Maureen Maguire wrote: I guess this thread questions whether or not Ammon McNeely is a legit climber.

And a second question is whether a dad happily babysitting his kiddo up El cap is a worthy record. Lol..I know several single moms who might consider it a record.

Agreed, Ammon is not legit at climbing, he's certainly good at some other things however.