New dog, New tricks

I am pretty good at cranking up multipitch climbs quickly, but I suck at cranking through equivalently graded pitches at the crag. Looking for tips on how to crag faster to simulate multipitch pitch counts to train for more committing Multis without "leaving the ground". Am I just heinously slow at cleaning anchors or are there other tricks?

John Clark wrote:  Am I just heinously slow at cleaning anchors or are there other tricks?

After you pull up rope to thread the anchor, use a clove hitch instead of a fig-8 to secure the rope.  There is no knot to untie after the anchor is threaded.

Instead of tying back in with a fig-8, use a bowline.  This is faster to tie and you never leave a knot in the rope to accidental get stuck when pulling the rope.  This assumes you can tie and inspect a bowline knot correctly!

I have a similar problem. I crank really hard (for me) routes in the gym, but when I go outside and try the same grades, I have a much harder time. Example: if grade X takes me three tries in the gym, it can often take me three days outside, and that is when I can do the individual moves.

Do I just not understand outside movement and technique, or are there any tricks I need to learn? FWIW, I learned to climb outside, and until this last year I have overall spent most of my time climbing outside.

Guy H. good call, I have been just securing via an overhand on a bight, which probably costs me some small amount of time compared to a clove. I'll have to work on my bowline, I had been doing a figure 8 on a bight clipped to the belay loop with a locker after threading.

JNE, that's not really my issue. I climb outside a lot and not trying to figure out style or pondering why commercial gyms like boosting egos, I'm just looking for logistical tips on how to minimize non-climbing related activity time.

I'll admit I don't really know what the question is, but I'll give a reply anyway. Is this an anchor cleaning issue or a stamina issue?

JNE wrote: I have a similar problem. I crank really hard (for me) routes in the gym, but when I go outside and try the same grades, I have a much harder time. Example: if grade X takes me three tries in the gym, it can often take me three days outside, and that is when I can do the individual moves.

Do I just not understand outside movement and technique, or are there any tricks I need to learn? FWIW, I learned to climb outside, and until this last year I have overall spent most of my time climbing outside.

Hows your head game on lead outside vs inside?

F loyd wrote: I'll admit I don't really know what the question is, but I'll give a reply anyway. Is this an anchor cleaning issue or a stamina issue?

anchor cleaning issue. Stamina is fine ;)

5.Seven Kevin wrote:

Hows your head game on lead outside vs inside?

Ironically, it is worse leading inside than outside.

5.Seven Kevin wrote:

Hows your head game on lead outside vs inside?

Since I learned how to climb outside, I am actually more comfortable climbing outside, and feel more comfortable above the gear than in the gym. I also like how outside, I am often able to use the geometry of the rock to my advantage, so I can often get more weight off my hands.

John Clark wrote:

anchor cleaning issue. Stamina is fine ;)

Gotcha, sex is fine. What is your current method? I know tons of anchors exist, but what is your usual method? I think less than 2 minutes is a good time to clean the anchor and be ready to lower or rap. 

John Clark wrote:

anchor cleaning issue. Stamina is fine ;)

Not quite clear how you clean anchors, but if you do - untie-thread-retie consider threading a bight of rope through anchors, tying bowline on the bight ( overhand->bowline conversion), clip that to your belay loop, untie and lower. This is assuming area where you climb considers lowering off sport climb acceptable.

Are you talking about setting up to be lowered from bolts/rings?  Pull a bight thru rings, tie fig-8 on bight, clip new knot to belay loop with locker, lock, untie original knot, pull slack thru rings, call to be lowered.

What’s not to love - you’re never off belay, don’t need to go in direct, and always remain connected to rope.  No reason this shouldn’t be fast, and it’s super safe if you communicate the plan beforehand.

Or maybe you’re talking about something else??

F loyd wrote:

Gotcha, sex is fine. What is your current method? I know tons of anchors exist, but what is your usual method? I think less than 2 minutes is a good time to clean the anchor and be ready to lower or rap. 

two alpines (or whatever tethers) to bolts to be in direct

pull up slack
secure rope using overhand bight
untie
thread
fig 8 on bight to locker on belay loop
undo overhand
TAKE
unclip from anchor
Lower

Looks like a bight through the chains is the way to go though. Not sure why I didn't think of doing that. Very elegant, Lads. I almost never sport climb, but figured sport climbers would know better for this topic. Mostly cragging in yosemite.

John Clark wrote:

two alpines (or whatever tethers) to bolts to be in direct

pull up slack
secure rope using overhand bight
untie
thread
fig 8 on bight to locker on belay loop
undo overhand
TAKE
unclip from anchor
Lower

Looks like a bight through the chains is the way to go though. Not sure why I didn't think of doing that. Very elegant, Lads. I almost never sport climb, but figured sport climbers would know better for this topic. Mostly cragging in yosemite.

If you use the bight method, you really need to only directly connect yourself to the anchor if you need to weigh it in order to free both hands.  By keeping the original knot on your harness during the process, you can do this with minimal, non-redundant gear (draw, or sling plus biner to anchor), while staying on belay throughout.  Plus there’s a safety advantage of not going off and back on belay.

Some downsides:
Sometimes bight won’t fit thru anchor.  In this case, I resort to going in direct and untieing completely, using clove to ensure I don’t drop rope in the process.
Some people prefer to rap, considering it more safe (they’re in control, less experienced partner, bad comms, etc.), and some areas prefer rapping to minimize anchor wear.  For these cases it’s gonna take longer, obviously.

Can't imagine it's cleaning routes that's preventing you from getting in lot's of pitches. I'm guessing it's your time between climbs. Make your gear swaps more efficient, swing leads, climb adjacent routes (minimize moving "base camps", makes route IDing easier) and most importantly spend less time spraying/listening to spray if there's others at the crag.

Most efficient method for anchor cleaning (passing a bight as noted above) detailed in this article:
https://americanalpineclub.org/resources-blog/2016/3/15/5ipkouk0id07cgc3dqks4fljnsgnx6

And this video ( youtube.com/watch?v=aDilZAL…):

@hamish:

Sometimes bight won’t fit thru anchor...  

In this case, pull up a few feet of slack through the draws/masterpoint and clove in here (or substitute a bight knot if desired), such that you stay on belay, but there is now a large bight of rope between the newly tied clove and your tie-in knot. Untie your tie-in (so you're now still on belay on that clove), thread, re-tie, remove clove and clean. Almost all of the same advantages as passing a bight, but works for those tiny quicklinks, small chain, etc. 

Most of wasted time is probably on the ground. Snack quicker, carry stuff in the tarp rather than repacking your bag between routes, etc

@Derek - aha!  Thanks for that!!

Jon Frisby wrote: Most of wasted time is probably on the ground. Snack quicker, carry stuff in the tarp rather than repacking your bag between routes, etc

Yeah, this is huge.  I’ve easily spent a half hour sorting my rack when I show up with a trashed pack.  I try my best now to start with things sorted and keep them sorted.  And snack while belaying, within reason :))