New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #6

John Gill wrote: Sorry about that, folks. Upon reflection, what I posted regarding Lori’s comment about depression in older climbers seemed somewhat trite and rather obvious, so I removed it. Nevertheless, here’s the gist: In times long past climbing for most was an avocation that complemented and added zest to an otherwise normal life. But for some, self-image became captive to the sport, diminishing the effect of more pedestrian concerns. And when physical abilities decline with age, what remains may seem insufficient, no matter how important.

My old friend Rich (rgold) describes his journey into old age with clarity and wit. But each of us must take a unique path that, step by step, diminishes our athletic abilities. It helps to have interests that strongly affect one’s self-image that are not as severely restricted by physical decline as climbing.  

At 82, I am on such a path and have been since passing the Youth of Old Age twenty years ago.

It hasn't been as bad as I expected!

John, it is good to hear from you over here.  I understand that, unless the grim reaper shows up unannounced,  the time will come for hangin' up the spurs, in a number of years that is most likely measured in single digits, as I am well past the youth of old age.  I'll be sad but not devastated---I can't complain when I've been granted so much.  And that realization suggests I owe more empathy to those who haven't had my good luck and now find themselves in a dark place framed by the decline of their abilities.  It isn't that hard to understand and I should have been less incredulous.

I agree with you that it has helped that climbing didn't turn out to be the "only thing" in our lives.  And I also think, and continue to say, that the connection of climbing to the experience of nature has greatly eased the transition into technical decline, because everything about the outdoors that moves me is just as available on a 5.8 (or a 5.3 for that matter) as on a 5.12.

And all this is probably a bit of a downer for our fellow travelers here, some of who, like Lori, are in the grip of the passions that washed over you and me a half-century ago.  But they too are living large at the very right tail of the bell curve, and if things don't progress the way they hope or certain distant goals refuse to get any closer, it would help to see how exceptionally fortunate they are to have found a passion in their golden years and to have the ability to pursue it, at a time in life when most people seem to be wrapping things up both physically and mentally.

Best regards old friend!

"the youth of old age" An excellent expression. I am a youth of old age, just getting to the point where I recognize I am not as strong as I one was, but I'm not done.  I led a 5.5 today and with a little hangdogging ascended a 5.9, can't go so far as to say I climbed it, but I did get to the top without aiding, so there you go.  

It was a beautiful day, light breeze, mid 70's.  We have been climbing with another couple who have a similar situation to us, the wife is the stronger climber and more enthusiastic about it, while the husband is more reticent.  We have been a good match because the girls can go off and challenge themselves while us guys work on technique, safety, etc.  He was somewhat challenged by his wife and therefor a bit reticent about climbing, so I come along, really weak climber, he's stronger than I am.  Yet I have knowledge, So he and I worked on top anchor belaying, rappelling, multi-pitch technique. Like me, he is apprehensive about heights, ok up to about 100, 300 feet gets a little freaky, so we talked about that.  If we were hanging around more I think we could get him into multi-pitching.  His apprehension has mainly come from not knowing.  He and I are both aviators so we have a common link to safety, redundancy, risk management.  It's been good for all of us, the companionship, the outdoors, physical activity. The wife has been particularly good for Barb who is leading 5.8 sport today. She got a little lost on a 5.7 lead and was getting pretty run out but she wasn't freaking about it.  That is significant.  The husband is now more enthusiastic about participating in his wife's passion for climbing.  

To me today was the epitome of climbing, beautiful weather, great rock, good company, challenging physical exercise, challenging mental exercise, and upward movement with a high degree of safety.

rgold wrote: And all this is probably a bit of a downer for our fellow travelers here, some of who, like Lori, are in the grip of the passions that washed over you and me a half-century ago.  But they too are living large at the very right tail of the bell curve, and if things don't progress the way they hope or certain distant goals refuse to get any closer, it would help to see how exceptionally fortunate they are to have found a passion in their golden years and to have the ability to pursue it, at a time in life when most people seem to be wrapping things up both physically and mentally.

Best regards old friend!

Rgold... you have been a guiding inspiration all along on this thread, and I'm sure throughout your entire career.  If I could sum up what you have given here it would be 'enjoy the journey'.  You have encouraged me to have a blast on 5.7 routes, and savor them.  I can still smell the flowers along the way of a day-journey you described some thousands of posts ago.  

I have had so much death and sadness in my life that never a day goes by when I don't think "Yea... it'll come around again, but it's NOT HERE TODAY.  So, dig it!"  We are in the privileged place to know the party will be over... soon... but it ain't over yet.  Every moment is precious, before that turned ankle, or illness, or whatever comes along.   

I also appreciate that you have counseled to limit the competitiveness and judgment.  I showed up... AGAIN... at the climbing gym on Monday, to attempt my 10d climb.  It was hard not to acknowledge that I've been at this gym for nearly 2 years and struggle so hard at this.  Kids with no experience, young adults who have barely climbed, hop up these routes like they were nothing.  I choose to blame this on my being a shitty athlete, not my age.  But either way... it's a barrel of fun while it lasts, so, unlike these kids, I'm savoring it.  I get what a rare privilege this is.

We are all working on Plan B.  You mentioned the link between climbing and nature. Oh my goodness... herbs, hikes, wildflowers, rock formations, salt flats (John), wild rivers, are all still there to explore when climbing ends (and now, also).  And the critters!   And young people.  Young pups who seem to want our presence and cheering. (uh oh is this the climbers' equivalent of being a soccer mom?)  When I can no longer climb I'll still be watching my little heartthrob Jeremy, and his pack of friends who climb like crazy. (Oh, to be able to do this move just ONCE!)  I'll be there with camera... and I hope that when I cannot do that, there will be Plan C.

(How did he manage to wedge a non-taped hand in that crack, a heel in that crevice, a toe wherever it is... and have such a relaxed and open posture while chalking up... wish I could have seen the whole sequence.   )  

 

rgold wrote:

John, it is good to hear from you over here.  I understand that, unless the grim reaper shows up unannounced,  the time will come for hangin' up the spurs, in a number of years that is most likely measured in single digits, as I am well past the youth of old age.  I'll be sad but not devastated---I can't complain when I've been granted so much.  And that realization suggests I owe more empathy to those who haven't had my good luck and now find themselves in a dark place framed by the decline of their abilities.  It isn't that hard to understand and I should have been less incredulous.

I agree with you that it has helped that climbing didn't turn out to be the "only thing" in our lives.  And I also think, and continue to say, that the connection of climbing to the experience of nature has greatly eased the transition into technical decline, because everything about the outdoors that moves me is just as available on a 5.8 (or a 5.3 for that matter) as on a 5.12.

And all this is probably a bit of a downer for our fellow travelers here, some of who, like Lori, are in the grip of the passions that washed over you and me a half-century ago.  But they too are living large at the very right tail of the bell curve, and if things don't progress the way they hope or certain distant goals refuse to get any closer, it would help to see how exceptionally fortunate they are to have found a passion in their golden years and to have the ability to pursue it, at a time in life when most people seem to be wrapping things up both physically and mentally.

Best regards old friend!

I was in touch with my first climbing mentor a few weeks ago.  He was the first one to take me climbing 32 years ago when I was 15 and he was in his mid-30's.  He used to climb hard and lead some crazy trad stuff back East and we climbed rock and ice together for years in the late 80's and 90's.

I asked him how he was doing and he said that he is still climbing "regularly" but "only 5.easy" these days but that he still gets the same joy out of it as when he was pushing himself back in the '70's and 80's.  

He also said that he does not see himself stopping anytime soon and in fact just sent a bunch of cams off to be reslung.

Mr. Gill and Rgold, you both seem to be moving, and have moved, in a wonderful arc throughout your climbing lives, just like my friend.  I hope that I can still be climbing in another 20 to 30 years as gracefully as all of you b/c in the end, it is not the grade "hardness" that I climb for, but the thrill and the engagement with nature and the release from the background "noise" of life. Thanks for the inspiration!

Climb on!

Speaking of doing stupid things safely, has anyone heard of the Josh climb Geronimo?  Been looking for the opportunity to do a genuine foot jam bat hang...

EDIT:... and live to tell it. 

Geronimo Finish is a fun solo to finish the day off.

Greg Opland wrote: My first trip to Josh a LONG time ago, there was some dweeb who would run around HVCG soloing stuff in the morning when people were getting up and going for the day. One morning he ends up at the base of Geronimo, above the campground, where he proceeds to bark and howl like a dog to make sure he got everyone's attention, then soloed the whole 20 feet of the 5.7 route. Always considered that whole scene to rate pretty high on the narcissistic d-bag climber scale.

You might be able to pull off a bat hang on it, purely for the jungle-gym factor, but it's not required.

GUILTY, Greg!  I would be barking and strutting and being a general annoyance if that happy day should come that I manage a bat hang on Geronimo. Actually I was going to add an Adam Ondra Primal Scream... just because it seems the right time/place for it. But I’ll try to time the big event for after campers wake up... and when SAR is on call.   

Lori Milas wrote:

GUILTY, Greg!  I would be barking and strutting and being a general annoyance if that happy day should come that I manage a bat hang on Geronimo. Actually I was going to add an Adam Ondra Primal Scream... just because it seems the right time/place for it. But I’ll try to time the big event for after campers wake up... and when SAR is on call.   

Lori, I am certain you could pull off a "bat hang" on Geronimo. You don't actually get a jam in the roof crack, but reach through the crack to a huge jug/heuco. Your gym training should come in handy to hang off that arm and stick you foot up where the roof starts. Looking forward to the pictures!

When friends from Colorado drive through the night, they arrive pre coffee, pre shower, pre anything resembling housecleaning....but at least I had my pants on!

Soooooo happy to finally ​meet this man. He is one of them who helped me come back to life. Picture me with horns and a beard if you don't recognize Fritz, lol!

Best, Helen

933 posts here?  How did that happen?  In another... 67... posts this thread will have reached 8000.  (Does anyone remember the missing "New and Experienced Climbers Over 51" thread?)  Maybe my math is off.

Ok, I guess some of us post more than others.     It's not that I personally have all that much to talk about.  I'm just trying to help climbers like Jeff have a 'safe place' to unburden themselves of all their emotional baggage.  It's a public service to show a soft underbelly and be emotionally vulnerable so that others can also feel ok about expressing themselves with lots of words, so they'll have the energy to keep on climbing.  Probably total count in all these 8000 posts (for Jeff) MIGHT be 100 words.     Remove the smack talk... 25. 

Lori Milas wrote: 933 posts here?  How did that happen?  In another... 67... posts this thread will have reached 8000.  (Does anyone remember the missing "New and Experienced Climbers Over 51" thread?)  Maybe my math is off.

Richard started that one. It's locked, so I'm not sure if he still has the ability to edit the title as the author. If so, he can change it to "over 50 #2" if it will help future generations.

In fact, whomever starts the next one should make it number 8....... ;)

John Gill wrote: ... when physical abilities decline with age, what remains may seem insufficient, no matter how important.

John, based on your recent YouTube video, you're doing a lot better than some of us who are much younger:

I find the experiences of you old-timers to be inspirational. I may never do a pull-up, but I'm going to keep trying. The idea that I might actually be able to do a pull-up at the age of 80 is mind-blowing. I should be so lucky!

John Barritt wrote: Richard started that one. It's locked, so I'm not sure if he still has the ability to edit the title as the author. If so, he can change it to "over 50 #2" if it will help future generations.

In fact, whomever starts the next one should make it number 8....... ;)

Nope, can't change it.

John Barritt wrote: In fact, whomever starts the next one should make it number 8....... ;)

That's hilarious, I can see cyber anthropologists speculating on the missing 7 series a couple of hundred years from now.  Where did it go? Was it a plot?  What was really said in series 7? 

From the way back machine 

Jeff.... good video, Cole is working on getting all those old dusty videos saved for posterity. 
Lori.... I love the picture of your back! Getting ripped is the sign that you are a climber. Keep it up. 

Dang I have not seen that footage in many years, thanks Guyzo

It was cool to see Steve on Best Seller! I took one of the longest flyers in my life on that rig!
Way back 

Guy Keesee wrote: It was cool to see Steve on Best Seller! I took one of the longest flyers in my life on that rig!
Way back 

Steve Showboat Shobe shots from an AARP gig in Joshua Tree! 

I was out at Devils Punchbowl yesterday working the two routes on the far right end of Gorilla Face.  I'm still weak.  Coming back from so much time off is a long, hard challenge.  But I finally got a clean TR send on Peckerhead.  And if my fingers hadn't been so trashed at that point, I might have gotten Grape Ape too.  I got faster and more efficient through the little fingery traverse moves, and I made the crux sequence a couple of times.  I just didn't quite put the two together.  I'm making progress.  I was noticeably stronger than the last time out.

What's everyone doing this weekend?  Everyone out having fun?  (Has anyone heard from Carl?)

I was out climbing with Chris and a couple of his friends at Donner yesterday.  It took me a few hours to get used to a new kind of rock--the stuff under my feet in this picture is like ice... and the storm clouds rolling in and out. We had a wet rope which baffled me... the only time a rope gets wet in Josh is if someone pees on it.  (This was from snow on the ground.   )  But I found the magic there and the joy of being out.  This was my first experience with outdoor climbing where my forearms got pumped and my fingers whanked... just like indoor routes.  So I guess a new chapter begins...

(I wanted to try the route on same rock that Chris did... a bit of a pull up just to start it... back to the gym for me. That was an absolute no-go.   )

Chris asked me to guess how deep Donner Lake is.  I would have guessed 20 feet, maybe.  He said the debate is over whether it is 600 or 900 feet deep.  So, Sierra terrain and alpine lakes are different and crazy!

Serious question: it was optional to wear a helmet yesterday. No one else did.  How likely is it to hurt the head on a top rope?  How important is this helmet?  I could see banging up almost anything else, but how could one hurt ones head?)