Best Car for Climbers

other wrote: How often do people actually need 4WD or AWD on shitty approach roads or in ice and snow? A few of these recommended vehicles have it, most have AWD or 2WD. Do you 2 wheel drive folks get stuck or have to turn around early to not destroy the bottom of car? Do vans have adequate ground clearance? I smashed the oil pan once in a compact low ground clearance FWD.
Another time got stuck in a poser Toyota 2wd prerunner Tacoma.

AWD is great for zooming over passes in the winter and up mountain roads for ski trips. Even in town for non-climbing purposes (MT, CO, etc) AWD provides a margin of safety (when used responsibly). Rarely needed on dry roads and rock climbing trips.

I have a 2wd Sequoia that I love. It has high clearance and is great on rough roads. Obviously, 4wd would be desirable if I drove it in snow a lot. But I don't. 

if you have a family and need room this is really one of the best vehicles you can by. On this trip it saw more than 1500 miles off pavement. It rarely needed 4wd, but twice I needed 4w low to start moving. AWD would not have done any good here.

Ok, Sienna body, Taco frame...

other wrote: How often do people actually need 4WD or AWD on shitty approach roads or in ice and snow? A few of these recommended vehicles have it, most have AWD or 2WD. Do you 2 wheel drive folks get stuck or have to turn around early to not destroy the bottom of car? Do vans have adequate ground clearance? I smashed the oil pan once in a compact low ground clearance FWD.
Another time got stuck in a poser Toyota 2wd prerunner Tacoma.

I think it really depends on where you climb and live.  There are quite a few approaches at the Red where high clearance is a good idea or necessary (PMRP, Miller), so for me: almost always.

Most AWD drive with one wheel in front & one wheel in back. Most 4WD's have at least one axle with a locking diff. 4WD vehicles have low compound AWD's don't. I rarely need 4WD but when I do I almost always need low. If you are already stuck you are going to need low. 

Aah, gotcha.  That’s interesting- in most cases, AWD seems to be superior.

Mark Frumkin wrote: Most AWD drive with one wheel in front & one wheel in back. Most 4WD's have at least one axle with a locking diff. 4WD vehicles have low compound AWD's don't. I rarely need 4WD but when I do I almost always need low. If you are already stuck you are going to need low. 

Indeed Mark! My Range Rover is full time 4X4 with auto-locking center and rear diffs. Never seen the rear lock, in HI or LO, I have seen the center diff lock quite often it can do it in HI or LO. LO in snow-mode is great for getting in/out of my driveway when already covered in snow.

AWD is inferior - I rescued two Subarus going sideways after trying to pull away from a stop on an icy hill - both on the same day in June Lake.

Ted Pinson wrote: Aah, gotcha.  That’s interesting- in most cases, AWD seems to be superior.

Nonsense.

Mark Frumkin wrote: JackWeaver, is that an 1975 RD250?

Yes, it is.  I just have to compress the front suspension a bit to wheel it in the back of the sienna. 

I have an xt225 that fits in the back as well, but I have to remove the headlight and roll the handle bars down.  

other wrote: How often do people actually need 4WD or AWD on shitty approach roads or in ice and snow? A few of these recommended vehicles have it, most have AWD or 2WD. Do you 2 wheel drive folks get stuck or have to turn around early to not destroy the bottom of car? Do vans have adequate ground clearance? I smashed the oil pan once in a compact low ground clearance FWD.
Another time got stuck in a poser Toyota 2wd prerunner Tacoma.

I personally use 4x4 all the time, at least once a week, where anything else won't do. I have a full size truck and I still bottom out once and a while. I have hunting land I do stuff with, I hunt public land, I drive on trails and unimproved roads all the time, I pull a boat, I have a duck boat that usually has a crappy launch, I live in MN so we get snow and ice. I have two dogs (used to be three   )  that get muddy and full of burs that I wouldn't want in a car or small SUV. 

On climbing trips, I usually am in a rental.

other wrote: How often do people actually need 4WD or AWD on shitty approach roads or in ice and snow? A few of these recommended vehicles have it, most have AWD or 2WD. Do you 2 wheel drive folks get stuck or have to turn around early to not destroy the bottom of car? Do vans have adequate ground clearance? I smashed the oil pan once in a compact low ground clearance FWD.
Another time got stuck in a poser Toyota 2wd prerunner Tacoma.

Hey, of course you don't need 4WD/AWD often when you live in SoCal, we barely know what seasons are...

I figure if you live in the mountains you'd need it a lot more, whereas if you live in the desert, not so much (well, maybe if you off-road all the time, then yes).  For the OP, looks like you're in Colorado, but is it more rural?  If so, then you'll probably want (I won't say need, since that might not be true) the snow/ice terrain capability more often than not.  Of course, that capability can get you into trouble a lot faster - my boss keeps reminding me that is easier to get into trouble whenever you add a motor to something.  You can't get in trouble that fast backpacking.

other wrote: How often do people actually need 4WD or AWD on shitty approach roads or in ice and snow?

Well, in 20 years with a 2wd Tacoma I only managed to get it stuck twice, and both times I was able to dig myself out. However, it also produced great amounts of anxiety in the spousal unit, who more than once made me turn around when things got interesting. Now that we have 4wd, approaches with her are much more tranquil. 

the schmuck wrote:

Well, in 20 years with a 2wd Tacoma I only managed to get it stuck twice, and both times I was able to dig myself out. However, it also produced great amounts of anxiety in the spousal unit, who more than once made me turn around when things got interesting. Now that we have 4wd, approaches with her are much more tranquil. 

The best vehicle I have ever owned was a Tacoma TRD 4x4 with a cap. It was older, with a 3.4L V6. So it had enough power if you didn't have to tow or haul anything big. It got about 26 mpg, and had super good clearance. 

The newer version I think has a 4.3L, and better towing capacity. Still won't beat out a F150 or Tundra for clearance or towing, but it is half the size.

My buddy just got a Ford E350 4x4 conversion that is pretty darn tough to beat for dirtbagging. He put in racks for SCUBA and bikes, has a solar array and freezer. Sleeping is tight, but doable for two if you don't remove the racks. He uses it for overnight trips for diving and MB'ing.

other wrote: How often do people actually need 4WD or AWD on shitty approach roads or in ice and snow? A few of these recommended vehicles have it, most have AWD or 2WD. Do you 2 wheel drive folks get stuck or have to turn around early to not destroy the bottom of car? Do vans have adequate ground clearance? I smashed the oil pan once in a compact low ground clearance FWD.
Another time got stuck in a poser Toyota 2wd prerunner Tacoma.

All depends on your local conditions and what you travel on.

An important thing to remember is that popular trailheads, climbing areas, ski areas, and so forth have all been driven by thousands of Priuses and Versas.

Southern California is 2WD country. As a result, I would expect there will be little you can't do with a 2WD, because that's what everyone drives.

other wrote: How often do people actually need 4WD or AWD on shitty approach roads or in ice and snow? A few of these recommended vehicles have it, most have AWD or 2WD. Do you 2 wheel drive folks get stuck or have to turn around early to not destroy the bottom of car? Do vans have adequate ground clearance? I smashed the oil pan once in a compact low ground clearance FWD.

Here in SLC you cannot go up BCC or LCC between Nov 1 - May 15 without either 4WD/AWD with snow/mud + snow tires OR have chains with you.

The Homestead, Canyonlands, etc.   there are actually quite a few places where 4wd is needed if you want to avoid a long hike. That said, I saw a Prius at the Enchanted Tower and a Fit down Davis Canyon Road. You really don't need 4wd/AWD for these, but must have been really exciting in these two cars. 

A good driver makes up for a lot & so does light weigh.

When we lived in So. Cal. my wife would git her rig stuck all the time. In Angels Forest, out in the Mojave usually about an hour + drive from me. 

Mark Frumkin wrote:

if you have a family and need room this is really one of the best vehicles you can by. On this trip it saw more than 1500 miles off pavement. It rarely needed 4wd, but twice I needed 4w low to start moving. AWD would not have done any good here.

I'll second the Suburban/Yukon XL suggestion. We've gone over 200k on ours and it hauls our playboats (inside!), and all our gear with out issues. 17mph for a 4x4 that does great in the snow isn't bad. We frequently use a 4 bike hitch rack with it when not towing our camper. 

We sleep in the back very comfortably with queen size air mattress when going on some shorter trips. The constant  CE light and TPMS lights for no reason gets old, but still love it.

FYI, for those interested in the subject, the car that won was the Honda Pilot (2015).

Thus far it has only gone on day trips, but it easily holds all the pads + dogs + baby + parents + grandparent/babysitter.

Next test is going to be a two week climbing trip (sport and bouldering), so we will see how the fit is when we add all the camping and sport gear!