Katana Lace v. Miura Lace

I wear size 10 us, and 41 in TC pro. My TC pro toebox is too fat to fit into thinner cracks/pockets. As a result, i'm in the market for a shoe that can be used on single/multi pitch trad, and can handle more aggressive climbing (thin cracks).

I found 2 solid options - Katana Lace 41.5 & Miura Lace 41.

I wanted to pick everyone's mind on your experience with the following:

1. Stretch
2. performance on more aggressive trad
3. comfort to withstand multi pitch trad
4. general experience/preference.

Thanks in advance!

For me it came down to fit, the Muira Lace is probably a better shoe for the moderate trad that I do, but the heel on the Katana lace fit me much better and I have been happy with the performance. They are too tight for all-day, but that is just a sizing issue. I have not had any real stretch on the Katana, but it has softened and conformed a little.

Ha! You’ve just listed the three best selling shoes at the shop. They all work well as an all-round shoe and all can be used as an all day trad shoe depending on the fit. The Muiras have a pointier toe profile than the Katana so would likely drill into those thin cracks better than the Katanas. The Katanas have a bit of downturn. They’ll work a bit better on the edges but some people hate that for cracks. But, whatever, Get the one that fits the best.  

Here are two pieces of unsolicited advice: 

1. You might want to try a softer shoe. There are a ton people out there who use the Mythos or Moccasyms as specialized thin crack machines. 
2. If you really want all-day comfort (Light your flame throwers now) try wearing socks in your shoes. Full lace shoes like the TCP, Katana and Miuras all can accept a pair of thin socks just by opening them up a bit. If you can handle the scorn your friends will heap on you, a pair of thin socks will give you happy feet at the end of the day. And I can guarantee you that at the end of 6th pitch, when your toes are screaming, slipping on a pair of socks will make your day better.

Climb safe,
Mal

Those are my two favorite shoes.

1. Stretch - pretty significant stretch and about the same for both
2. performance on more aggressive trad - depends on the kind of trad.  Katanas are more downturned and therefore edge more precisely, but are less comfortable to jam.  I personally use Katana's for edgy and hard single-pitch trad and sport climbing, and I love Miuras for multi-pitching.
3. comfort to withstand multi pitch trad - I can't do it in Katanas because of the downturn.  But absolutely with the Miuras.
4. general experience/preference. I own both and use them for different things.  They are my go-to shoes.  I have my Miuras sized so that my toes don't curl much and I can where them all day for multi-pitch, and I feel like they perform great.  But, it's all a question of foot shape as compared to the shoe last.

Great advice. Thank you!

Katana is more symetrical than the miura,. Go with whichever fits best. They both perform well. Either is a step up from what you have.

Jon W wrote: Katana is more symetrical than the miura,. Go with whichever fits best. They both perform well. Either is a step up from what you have.

Definitely 

my 2cents: i have katana laces and miura laces in the same size and the only times I wear the miuras is when my katanas are being re-soled. katanas are so much more comfortable for me

Malcolm Daly wrote: ....If you really want all-day comfort (Light your flame throwers now) try wearing socks in your shoes. ....when your toes are screaming, slipping on a pair of socks will make your day better....
Mal

Calling shenanigans on that

Explain how taking up more volume in the shoe will make your feet feel better. That's be like putting thick old school mountaineering sock into a plug race boot...

To the OP's questions.
For purely THIN cracks (ones that don't like TC pros) I've found that a softer downturned pointy shoe works really well since a lot of the footwork is more like putting your foot into a pocket rather than true jamming. This experience excluded splitter IC style stuff.

How is everyone sizing their katana?  I wear 41 tc pro and that’s toes flat right to the front but not curled.  

Katana is 41.5 for me, which is the same fit as my tc in size 41.  41 in katana is unbearable for more than 1 pitch.  

Like Zach, I find the Muiras are no good for crack climbing - too painful. I like them for other trad like Eldo though.

Katanas really vary depending on how you size them. Sized very tight and they can be a great vertical edging shoe. Sized up and they're great for thin cracks and multipitch.

I've been doing TCs in 42 and Katanas in 43. Great combo, depending on whether edging, cracks, or comfort is priority.

Soft shoes are great for sandstone splitters, but otherwise the more you size up, the stiffer the shoe needs to be in order to hang onto some edging ability.

La Sportiva Katana Lace is my footwear gear.
The Katana Lace’s edging, smearing, and hooking abilities are great for slab and vertical face climbing. The laces and rubber are well-suited for crack climbing.
 

Joe Trabucco wrote: How is everyone sizing their katana?  I wear 41 tc pro and that’s toes flat right to the front but not curled.  

Katana is 41.5 for me, which is the same fit as my tc in size 41.  41 in katana is unbearable for more than 1 pitch.  

I have Katanas in 41.5 and Mythos in 41. The latter being similar in shape to the TC pro.

Size them as tight as you can and still be somewhat comfortable. They do stretch some and you don't want any unused volume in the shoe, If it is to tight, you won't be able to push hard on small edges or smears and you will end up overgripping everything. Find that middle ground.

Brian Carver wrote: I've had all of the above shoes other than TC Pros. I climb in Eldo twice a week.

The Muira lace up toes are actually up turned. Don't believe the pictures on the internet.
The Muira vs are too aggressive for multi-pitch
The Kitanas (I love them) are super soft on the inside and great at edging. However they lack sensitivity needed for Eldo. The sole is stiff resulting in my foot getting stuck in cracks
TC Pros toe box is actually no taller than most of the other shoes listed. Somewhere started that rumor a while ago. Go to the store and check their profile with other shoes. You'll see

Get the Katakis. Everything you need and more.

Interesting.  Reviews say the kataki is a supercharged katana but not as comfortable.  

How does the Miura Lace do in thin stuff and eldo type climbing?

Brian Carver wrote:

Not near as good as the Kataki. The upturned toe is a deal breaker for me, plus I think you'll find the toe is very similar to the TC's.  I still find them useful for <=5.9 multi days though.

Myself and a lot of my partners like the Kataki because although downturned the toe box is wide so your toes lay flat on the curve. The katakis and katanas both have that little rubber talon at the tip of the toes that is so clutch on thin eldo cracks. 

Ya buddy.  Solid advice.  I’ll go try on the kataki.  Katanas felt solid but now I’m curious about their supercharged version...

Do they stretch much?

NorCalNomad wrote:

Calling shenanigans on that

Explain how taking up more volume in the shoe will make your feet feel better. That's be like putting thick old school mountaineering sock into a plug race boot...

To the OP's questions.
For purely THIN cracks (ones that don't like TC pros) I've found that a softer downturned pointy shoe works really well since a lot of the footwork is more like putting your foot into a pocket rather than true jamming. This experience excluded splitter IC style stuff.

No shenanigans.  You obviously have not tried thin socks (e.g. thin liner socks) in climbing shoes.  You'll give up some performance because your foot will be able to slip a bit inside the shoe, but that is also what makes it more comfortable for long days.  I have not used socks in a long time but I used to and it makes a big difference in comfort.  Malcolm has it right.  But sure, you may need to size up by 1/2 size to make it work (although that is not a given, again because your foot will slip into place better with socks).  It's also great to keep your ankles warmer on high alpine routes.

Brian Carver wrote:

I'm not real sure. I don't think much. Hard to tell since I didn't down size aggressively 

Did you size them with your toes flat but right at the front? 

I know quite a few accomplished climbers who wear the Katana laces almost exclusively in Eldo, on granite big walls, in the Platte, and on thin finger cracks on different rock types. The Katana Laces and TC pros are significantly wider in the forefoot than the Miura laces, and the Katana Laces (along with the Kataki) probably have the thinnest toe profile of any shoe (think chisel tip). Katana laces have a full-length midsole, while the Katakis have a half-length midsole with a split outsole, so expect the Katanas to be significantly stiffer and edge better long-term. I wouldn't worry about them getting stuck in cracks. This is a non-issue with proper technique.
I personally wear Boostics and Instinct VS for the same applications because Sportivas are universally too narrow for my feet in the metatarsals and pinkie toe area.

Yep, my buddy called his katanas his goto granite shoe.  Wears them all day at lumpy, eldo,platte, etc.   also like the 5.10 stinks.