Just got word that Shawn Snyder is banned from Smith Rock State Park for 210 days!

I've visited Smith and loved it. Thank you to those putting in work there. People who just climb developed routes don't have a clue the work put in to develop them. They do like to wag their finger on MP though smh.

Tim Lutz wrote:

I agree. Want to go remove all the fixed lines on EL Cap?

I’d have no problem with that, but this is a different situation.

I think stashing gear is lazy and should be discouraged. However, we’ve moved past the argument that draws left in place are abandoned (they’re not). However, if one’s sole motive when removing stashed gear is leave no trace, there should also be some effort to reunite that gear with it’s lazy owners.

BigCountry wrote: I've visited Smith and loved it. Thank you to those putting in work there. People who just climb developed routes don't have a clue the work put in to develop them. They do like to wag their finger on MP though smh.

Boom.  Not to rehash the other thread, but this is an important point - pretty sure stashed gear was stolen that was there for route development, which can be a lot more to pack in every day than a sport rope/rack.  Also pretty sure dude was pilfering what amounted to shared, stashed ‘community’ stick clips?  

Fat Dad wrote:

I’d have no problem with that, but this is a different situation.

I think stashing gear is lazy and should be discouraged. However, we’ve moved past the argument that draws left in place are abandoned (they’re not). However, if one’s sole motive when removing stashed gear is leave no trace, there should also be some effort to reunite that gear with it’s lazy owners.

So it’s ok to leave draws but as long as someone wants to leave no trace they can remove route development gear?

Hamish Malin wrote:

Boom.  Not to rehash the other thread, but this is an important point - pretty sure stashed gear was stolen that was there for route development, which can be a lot more to pack in every day than a sport rope/rack.  Also pretty sure dude was pilfering what amounted to shared, stashed ‘community’ stick clips?  

Also, is he a ginger?  This may be a significant data point.

That is sacrilege.. I have 60lb of developing gear stashed at one of my crags because it’s insane to hike class 3-4 in and out with a 80lb pack and clean, climb and bolt for 8 hours repeatedly. Stealing developer’s gear as a climber is like burning down your own business. Or something. I don’t know, it’s horrible. Stealing draws is bad enough, but thwarting the people who spend all their money, time and energy to make these places climbable is a whole different level of wtf.

Brandon Fields wrote:

That is sacrilege.. I have 60lb of developing gear stashed at one of my crags because it’s insane to hike class 3-4 in and out with a 80lb pack and clean, climb and bolt for 8 hours repeatedly. Stealing developer’s gear as a climber is like giving burning down your own business. Or something. I don’t know, it’s horrible. Stealing draws is bad enough, but thwarting the people who spend all their money, time and energy to make these places climbable is a whole different level of wtf.

I can’t find a good analogy. It’s like stealing from the donation jar at the library maybe? Or stealing the cookware from the soup kitchen because people can’t appreciate soup they didn’t make themselves? Except the bums are really privileged? I dunno. It *is* antisocial in the extreme.

mediocre wrote:

So it’s ok to leave draws but as long as someone wants to leave no trace they can remove route development gear?

I have no idea what you mean.  If it helps clarify my position, I dislike it when people leave draws but I acknowledge that it has become an accepted practice.

Fat Dad wrote:

I have no idea what you mean.  If it helps clarify my position, I dislike it when people leave draws but I acknowledge that it has become an accepted practice.

Gotchya. That makes more sense. 

Fat Dad wrote:

I think stashing gear is lazy and should be discouraged.

Yet acceptable at Smith. This magnified area of the image from up-thread:

Felt the need to address the "lazy ass Smith climbers" aspect of this thread.  I just got back from my first week at Smith.  Locals were friendly, crag was clean and well cared for, fixed gear was safe and well maintained, and there was a strong turnout for a trail building day.  I found the area to be one of the best managed climbing areas I have ever seen.  This incident involves straight up theft of gear - no ambiguity at all.  Talking with locals about it, they showed surprising empathy for him as a human, though frustration with his actions.  Those of you defending him are doing so entirely out of self righteous ignorance.  My two cents - visitors should be grateful to the Smith community for maintaining an exceptional climbing area while being gracious hosts to the hordes of outside visitors. 

And, these were draws stolen off of routes late in the evening.  I walked up the trail at about 6:30 and they were still there.  He snuck in and pulled them in a one hour window before the park closed.  These were project draws actively being used by locals - I saw attempts on both routes the day in question.  This is not about laziness - project draws are standard practice at sport areas, like it or not.  Taking them in these circumstances is clear theft.

John Collins wrote:

In your last two post you have said all Smith climbers are " lazy sport wankers, fat and lazy, too fat and lazy to carry gear 15 minutes and the most defensive of the sportos". You then inferred its no more than a15 minute hike to anywhere in the park. Obvious you have never been here. Obvious you should stop spouting. 

It’s these people who have zero clue what it’s like to actually project a route. Of course if all youre doing is climbing 5.9’s all day, you put your gear up, climb the route, and take your gear down. Rarely are you giving some to many goes on routes in that grade range before you send it; hence leaving draws up on hard climbs because they usually take some to many goes to learn the beta needed before sending the thing. Aside from their understanding, or lack there of, it’s also accepted by the community here, as well as allowed by the State Park officials, saying it’s ok to leave gear up. 

Shawn is a menace trying to pray on the flock, has been for years now. Seeing it any other way is a lack of understanding of how Smith Rock etiquette works and just trying to be indifferent on the internet. 

Im damn sure you’d be bummed to if you came to Smith on a climbing trip, poured over the guide and found that awesome route you want to send. You put your draws up on your project (knowing it’s acceptable by local standards) only to come down to the park the next day and see they’re missing. Yeah as a visitor that sucks. Imagine living here and dealing with that BS 365. It’s great to see legal action finally taking place. So far Shawn has been digging his own grave. Hopefully he digs it deep enough he won’t be able to get out.

Artful Dodger wrote: Just so we are clear, can anyone climb on your proj draws? And, how much stuff can I leave cached and for how long before its a nuisance?

Yes and never

5.Seven Kevin wrote: Sooooo what you're still trying to say is.....

You're too lazy to carry your gear back to your car, right?

 Bet your shit has less a chance of being "stolen" if its in your garage versus under a bush :)

Man Smith climbers are the most defensive of the sportos arent they??

What's being said politely is you're a damn idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about. Now hush and let adults speak.

Congrats to Smith regulars. No one needs the kinds of thievery dude brings to the table once they let him out of jail.  The fella above was clearly just there, he said:  Locals were friendly, crag was clean and well cared for, fixed gear was safe and well maintained, and there was a strong turnout for a trail building day.  I found the area to be one of the best managed climbing areas I have ever seen."

And sevin kevin, once your expensive tent and $400 sleeping bag are jacked due to you "leaving it as abandoned" in the campground, or all of your gear which you left at the base of a multipitch climb stolen, feel free and come back and apologize.

Angst and hate filled replies from climbers from the nicest crag :^)

This websites too easy now, even tradiban is going to get bored at the rate you guys get triggered here.

5.Seven Kevin wrote: Angst and hate filled replies from climbers from the nicest crag :^)

This websites too easy now, even tradiban is going to get bored at the rate you guys get triggered here.

Dude bro, you’re not that good. 

5.Seven Kevin wrote: Angst and hate filled replies from climbers from the nicest crag :^)

This websites too easy now, even tradiban is going to get bored at the rate you guys get triggered here.

I suppose I fail to understand the point of coming on a forum, acting like an asshole, waiting for people to respond, just so you can play the "damn you guys are triggered" line.  Clearly, some people believe it is ok to steal, and if you are supporting that as some kind of joke just to see adults get pissed off and laugh at them, that is truly pathetic.  I suppose the other option, that you were on the level and condone Shawn's behavior is the worse of the two options here.  Let me offer you a third, more useful option though.  Just keep quiet.

Kyle Edmondson wrote:

I suppose I fail to understand the point of coming on a forum, acting like an asshole, waiting for people to respond, just so you can play the "damn you guys are triggered" line.  Clearly, some people believe it is ok to steal, and if you are supporting that as some kind of joke just to see adults get pissed off and laugh at them, that is truly pathetic.  I suppose the other option, that you were on the level and condone Shawn's behavior is the worse of the two options here.  Let me offer you a third, more useful option though.  Just keep quiet.

Ok Kevin, I stand corrected. 

5.Seven Kevin wrote: Angst and hate filled replies from climbers from the nicest crag :^)

This websites too easy now, even tradiban is going to get bored at the rate you guys get triggered here.

You rang? Yep, it's just too easy nowadays.

The Tradiban's official policy regarding Shawn Snyder is that he is crazy and should be kept away from any children, dogs and sport climbers, save any of these entities a conniption.