Rappelling off the belay loop

So I rap off of my belay loop because a tensioned PAS is the worst thing to try and screw with, and my buddy is of the “yer gonna die” camp

Other than personal preference is there a reason to rap off of the extended PAS vs a belay loop?

You'll be fine. Just make sure your prussik doesn't go high enough that it interferes with your ATC.

Sawyer W wrote: So I rap off of my belay loop because a tensioned PAS is the worst thing to try and screw with, and my buddy is of the “yer gonna die” camp

Other than personal preference is there a reason to rap off of the extended PAS vs a belay loop?

Not really, unless you need to extend the device for some reason. I've never done anything other than off the belay loop unless it was a heavy load, like rapping with a haul bag.

Edit to add: even the few times I extended it, the extension sling was still connected to the belay loop, so, actually, no, I've never rapped of something other than my belay loop.
Wait. Is your friend doing something dumb like attaching the PAS to something other than the belay loop? Like the tie-in points? N00b!!!

It sounds like your friend is of the absolutist "always do it this way" one-size-fits-all-situations mind-set. S/he should change that behavior.

Everybody raps off their belay loop.

When you "pre-rig" a new climber for rappeling, it's done with an extension. It's also more stable to rappel on an extension, but most people (including me) don't bother.

You’re both wrong.  Why are you “screwing with” a tensioned PAS?  It sounds like you’re not setting up your extended rappel correctly.

FrankPS wrote: When you "pre-rig" a new climber for rappeling, it's done with an extension.

Yeah I was being a little flippant. Well over 90% of people that I see rapping do it straight off their belay loop (the 10% are guides, newbies who are very by the book, and them some safety conscioisness climbers - which I sometimes fall into 2 of those categories). Some with a friction hitch back up and some without. The overwhelming majority of my rappels are done straight off the belay loop, friction hitch back up on the leg loop (usually klemheist or auto-block). Always with ends knotted. I have occasionally extended rappels and am aware of the death and subsequent updating of AMGA recommendations to extend the device and have the friction hitch backup on the belay loop. If I do extend I like doing it with a single 60cm sling tied in a masterpoint. I hate the super far extensions that I see some people with.

Bryan wrote:

If I do extend I like doing it with a single 60cm sling tied in a masterpoint.

On the rare occasion that I extend my rappel, I also only use shoulder-length slings.  But I will double them up.  I use the Mammut Contact slings and I don't like the idea of my life being dependent on a single one of those things.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is long hair.  People with long hair benefit from having their rappel device about their heads.

My brother had long hair growing up.  It got stuck in his belay device and it actually turned into a pretty big problem.  Someone had to hike to the top of the crag, drop another line and rap down to him with a knife to cut his hair.  That was a PITA at a one-pitch crag.  It would be exponentially more difficult for someone that's really off the ground.

Bryan wrote: Everybody raps off their belay loop.

Uh no, not everybody ... because some harnesses do not have a belay loop. And even when they do, not all use them. Instead of being flippant, post something that is actually helpful to the OP and others.

For the OP. It really depends on your own preference. I rarely use a Prusik so for me, off a belay loop or biner works fine. When I do use a Prusik it above rather than below (which is another discussion).

Sawyer W wrote: So I rap off of my belay loop because a tensioned PAS is the worst thing to try and screw with, and my buddy is of the “yer gonna die” camp

Other than personal preference is there a reason to rap off of the extended PAS vs a belay loop?

If your buddy thinks "yer gonna die" due to rapping off of your belay loop, then WTF does he think about belaying and lowering (rappelling is simply lowering YOURSELF) off of your belay loop???

Sawyer W wrote: So I rap off of my belay loop because a tensioned PAS is the worst thing to try and screw with, and my buddy is of the “yer gonna die” camp

Other than personal preference is there a reason to rap off of the extended PAS vs a belay loop?

Well, you're gonna die, but probably not because you rap off your belay loop.

I rap off a Petzl Connect-Adjust through my tie-in points. The reasons I do this are:

1. It's easy to weight the rappel system before coming off the anchor.
2. The extension keeps my rappel system in a comfortable area where I can see it, away from the gear hanging off my harness.
3. The extension means all parts of the system are rated (leg loops aren't).
4. Leg loops move with your legs, so depending on the rappel, if you bend your leg, the Prusik backup can get sucked into your rappel device.

None of these things are problematic as long as you don't screw anything up.

This is going to turn into another “PASs are dumb” thread, isn’t it?

Spoiler: they are.

I like bacon

I bet you belay off your belay loop, too, Loco.

I'm one of those old-schoolers who never raps off the belay loop.  I was taught (many moons ago) to reduce the number of links in a chain, if possible.  I just use a large locker for the belay device and slip it thru the tie-in points to reduce the extra link of a belay loop.  (Why is it not called a rappel loop???)

Bill Lundeen wrote: (Why is it not called a rappel loop???)

Why is it not called a rappel device?

Marc801 C wrote:

Not really, unless you need to extend the device for some reason. I've never done anything other than off the belay loop unless it was a heavy load, like rapping with a haul bag.

Edit to add: even the few times I extended it, the extension sling was still connected to the belay loop, so, actually, no, I've never rapped of something other than my belay loop.
Wait. Is your friend doing something dumb like attaching the PAS to something other than the belay loop? Like the tie-in points? N00b!!!

It sounds like your friend is of the absolutist "always do it this way" one-size-fits-all-situations mind-set. S/he should change that behavior.

SNIP: Wait. Is your friend doing something dumb like attaching the PAS to something other than the belay loop? Like the tie-in points? N00b!!! 

I hope that was sarcasm, as I believe you are supposed to girth a PAS to your harness, NOT the belay loop ... rockandice.com/climbing-gea…;

Nothing the matter with the belay loop, but nothing matter with an extension either, whether it is a PAS or a knotted sling.  Anyone who has trouble with either method is missing something.   It's just a matter of personal preference, combined in some cases with the comfort level with the presence or absence of an effective backup.  

That said, rappelling off the belay loop with a autoblock on a leg loop is the least effective way to arrange a backed up rappel.

You're buddy has no idea what hes talking about.

Also rapping off a locker through your tie in points is a great way to cross load your biner and make it much weaker than your belay loop. Your belay loop is generally the strongest point on any modern harness, use it. 

rgold wrote

That said, rappelling off the belay loop with a autoblock on a leg loop is the least effective way to arrange a backed up rappel.

So the method that works perfectly for the vast majority of climbers is the least effective of all the perfect methods? That's deep.