Why don't more people do outdoor activities such as climbing, hiking?

Brandon Arrastia wrote: I just wish I can get more people to try it and enjoy the beauty nature has to offer. Here in miami all everyone wants to do is hang out in the beach drinking mojitos. 

Dude.  it's Miami, what do you expect?

enjoy your view and move on.    

I should point out I have been in the east coast in Florida. It is hot AF. No one lived in a van...even with this vanlife stuff - rarely are there that do full time. A lot have the air conditioned apartment and the van for cool pics and weekend trips and fake insta's.

I understand the dirtbag and the hippie west coast deal. However A LOT of people on the east coast now want to travel to the west coast and go to all these amazing places they see on insta and travel and be free. I guess I was putting it into perspective of the east coast south - should have specified. My bad haha

I would bet my life savings that NONE of my highschool classmates (other than my friends) ever even heard of Joshua Tree. A few might have hard of Yosemite. A few scrolls on insta and you see some totally fake couple in a tent in some picture perfect sunset at JT haha or if you follow the right person - you see some rad sending from a dirty dude who is probably a little bloody - but still at JT lol

I think it is great really. It does get people out even if it is fake and just lame posing. That said - if 100 people get out because of it and even 5 of those actually get into climbing or hiking - it is still a win for future generations. Their kids might be into it as well. 

Ma Ja wrote:

You are proving his point. You were raised in a uniquely awesome family, but he's saying that now, daddy's girl who got a Lex for her 16th birthday, needs to go out and pretend to be a hipp(ocrite)ie. It's now in the "mainstream", spending time outside (taking pictures of yourself pretending to be...) enjoying nature. 

My main point was that depending on where you come from, the culture of spending time in the dirt and living outside of the status quo is nothing new. The acts as described were what everyone all around me has been doing since I was a child (I'm roughly the same age as OP). I understand that this upbringing is different than most, but suggesting that it didn't exist before this generation is incorrect. Yes, there is a greater prevalence now due to access to information and the easy ability to brag about your 'unique' lifestyle choices, but that is not to say it hasn't been occurring in masse for more than just this generation.

I don't know, Jasper. Maybe it's a East Coast vs West Coast thing or who we've been exposed to, but almost everyone I know between 25 and 40 (i.e. "millennials") works their ass off. The current job market requires nothing less. Most people are working harder for less money while everything costs more. Things like "entitlements" end up being wanting a job that provides health insurance or provides some opportunity for advancement.

Jasper Jenkins wrote: I should point out I have been in the east coast in Florida. It is hot AF. No one lived in a van...even with this vanlife stuff - rarely are there that do full time. A lot have the air conditioned apartment and the van for cool pics and weekend trips and fake insta's.

I understand the dirtbag and the hippie west coast deal. However A LOT of people on the east coast now want to travel to the west coast and go to all these amazing places they see on insta and travel and be free. I guess I was putting it into perspective of the east coast south - should have specified. My bad haha

I would bet my life savings that NONE of my highschool classmates (other than my friends) ever even heard of Joshua Tree. A few might have hard of Yosemite. A few scrolls on insta and you see some totally fake couple in a tent in some picture perfect sunset at JT haha or if you follow the right person - you see some rad sending from a dirty dude who is probably a little bloody - but still at JT lol

I think it is great really. It does get people out even if it is fake and just lame posing. That said - if 100 people get out because of it and even 5 of those actually get into climbing or hiking - it is still a win for future generations. Their kids might be into it as well. 

No one living in Vans but plenty of people living on boats, same idea different ride.

Tyler Johnson wrote: I don't know, Jasper. Maybe it's a East Coast vs West Coast thing or who we've been exposed to, but almost everyone I know between 25 and 40 (i.e. "millennials") works their ass off. The current job market requires nothing less. Most people are working harder for less money while everything costs more. Things like "entitlements" end up being wanting a job that provides health insurance or provides some opportunity for advancement.

I currently have to train several 25-30 year olds....they have different ideas about how much of their time and mental energy they are willing to give to a giant corporation. As far as I can tell we have inherited a generation of mercenaries. One young person left before the training period was even through because there "might" be some weekend/overnight work involved when we do installs. Pretty standard for my Gen X crew.

Overheard at the local gym: "I just don't understand why I can't have a steady job with benefits, time for my dog and garden, and 4 months of paid time off?"

Brandon - I'm baffled as to why you would encourage anyone to take up outdoor activities.  The experience, climbing or hiking, is diminished by the presence of others.  Climbers should be actively discouraging all of their non-climbing acquaintances from taking up the sport.  They should be patiently explaining that it is foolishly dangerous, expensive, and not worth the effort.

Dallin Carey wrote: Overheard at the local gym: "I just don't understand why I can't have a steady job with benefits, time for my dog and garden, and 4 months of paid time off?"

Life Goals.

Buck Rio wrote:

I currently have to train several 25-30 year olds....they have different ideas about how much of their time and mental energy they are willing to give to a giant corporation. As far as I can tell we have inherited a generation of mercenaries. One young person left before the training period was even through because there "might" be some weekend/overnight work involved when we do installs. Pretty standard for my Gen X crew.

not going to trade my life to some faceless organization that wouldn't do the same for me. most companies (not saying yours specifically) would lay off my entire department at the drop of a hat if they thought it would make the shareholders one iota more profit this quarter. why would I donate my only free time to them?

there has been a cultural shift in the way employees are treated (as "human resources" that can be moved around at will, laid off, rehired as contractors, have their schedules rearranged on a weekly basis). and there has been a corresponding shift in the employees reactions to that. i think that is where "mercenary culture" is coming from. except you didn't just "inherit it".... you created it.

again, I'm not saying this is you specifically. i am just speaking in general to the larger cultural forces at play.

Ma Ja wrote:

 It's now in the "mainstream", spending time outside (taking pictures of yourself pretending to be...) enjoying nature. 

If there isn't a selfie on social media did it really happen?

Tyler Johnson wrote: I don't know, Jasper. Maybe it's a East Coast vs West Coast thing or who we've been exposed to, but almost everyone I know between 25 and 40 (i.e. "millennials") works their ass off. The current job market requires nothing less. Most people are working harder for less money while everything costs more. Things like "entitlements" end up being wanting a job that provides health insurance or provides some opportunity for advancement.

I would say 25% of people I know work their ass off - but they have their whole life. For instance, I work at an investment bank. Weekends and nights are normal for me - I don't like them but they are normal. My father was a banker as well so I just was used to that concept. However - learning from the wise (father) - grind it out for a few years now and then take a cushy exit opportunity later. 

What I have seen - is the gen my age wants that cushy opportunity NOW. They want the unlimited vacay, they want the rad benefits, they want all that now without having the experience (not even so much education) to be worth that to a company.

I am ALL for the tech style companies that do offer work/life balance. As someone with a ton of hobbies - I make work life balance work because no job is worth being miserable. I told my bosses that and as long as I get my work done - they are okay with me dipping out at a reasonable hour to climb or run. I mean - I was surfing saturday and my boss called and I had to run a report. Phone hotspot and computer in the car in the beach parking lot for a report haha happens.

Steve Marshall wrote:

not going to trade my life to some faceless organization that wouldn't do the same for me. most companies (not saying yours specifically) would lay off my entire department at the drop of a hat if they thought it would make the shareholders one iota more profit this quarter. why would I donate my only free time to them?

there has been a cultural shift in the way employees are treated (as "human resources" that can be moved around at will, laid off, rehired as contractors, have their schedules rearranged on a weekly basis). and there has been a corresponding shift in the employees reactions to that. i think that is where "mercenary culture" is coming from. except you didn't just "inherit it".... you created it.

again, I'm not saying this is you specifically. i am just speaking in general to the larger cultural forces at play.

Executives in any field will do what they think will make them and the shareholders more money. I said "shareholder", which includes employees.  What I have seen happen in my field, is that the most malignant, greedy narcissists have risen to the top and are running things.  They don't seem to mind that their decisions are ruining peoples lives, and the long-term viability of the company, in exchange for very short term gains, which will make them incredibly wealthy.  

But to basically "Opt out" is just as short sighted. Your social security benefits are based on income, and if you don't have any, you won't get any of the benefits later in life.  The company you work for doesn't owe you anything other than a paycheck (and insurance, maybe). If you don't like that, start your own company, work for the government etc...

I guess I am from a time when all able bodied people were expected to work, or contribute in any way they could. Laying around smoking pot and climbing is no different than being a junkie bum.

I never had kids, so I'm not taking any responsibility for the state of affairs.

Tim Lutz wrote:

Saw the girl in the middle smoking heroin on the train this AM coming to work...

Buck Rio wrote:

Executives in any field will do what they think will make them and the shareholders more money. I said "shareholder", which includes employees.  What I have seen happen in my field, is that the most malignant, greedy narcissists have risen to the top and are running things.  They don't seem to mind that their decisions are ruining peoples lives, and the long-term viability of the company, in exchange for very short term gains, which will make them incredibly wealthy.  

But to basically "Opt out" is just as short sighted. Your social security benefits are based on income, and if you don't have any, you won't get any of the benefits later in life.  The company you work for doesn't owe you anything other than a paycheck (and insurance, maybe). If you don't like that, start your own company, work for the government etc...

I guess I am from a time when all able bodied people were expected to work, or contribute in any way they could. Laying around smoking pot and climbing is no different than being a junkie bum.

I never had kids, so I'm not taking any responsibility for the state of affairs.

Hmm I was speaking more to the lack of loyalty. A Mercenary is not somebody "opting out" so I'm not sure when we switched to talking about entitled bums. I don't think anyone would agree that that's a defensible position. 

A mercenary is somebody who works hard for pay but moves on when the situation no longer benefits them. I have no loyalty to my company, because they have no loyalty to me. I am paid a salary for an expected 40h of work. That much I give, and I get a reasonable amount of work done in that 40h. You start asking me to regularly put in uncompensated nights and weekends because it's "needed?" I'm out. If there's that much work that it's that "needed," then really what you "need" is to hire more people. You start messing with my schedule too much with short notice... that disrupts my time outside of work which you are also not compensating me for, again I'm out.

Most millenials I know with crummy jobs are pissed off because they are locked into a bad situation by a need for healthcare/some sort of income, meanwhile their employers take advantage of this fact by shuffling their shifts around all the time (which really makes it extra hard to manage your life, you can never plan anything, it can disrupt your sleep schedule which is important to maintaining physical and mental health). It's a really bad situation. The employer will say "oh business is slow, go home now" which means now you get less pay than you expected. Or call you on your day off and say "you need to come in now" which messes things up the other way. Personally I don't think it's too much to ask employers to staff enough people to keep schedules sane and pay their staff for a full work week. Yes, this increases costs... but does America really need half price appetizers at Applebees?

Steve Marshall wrote:

Hmm I was speaking more to the lack of loyalty. A Mercenary is not somebody "opting out" so I'm not sure when we switched to talking about entitled bums. I don't think anyone would agree that that's a defensible position. 

A mercenary is somebody who works hard for pay but moves on when the situation no longer benefits them. I have no loyalty to my company, because they have no loyalty to me. I am paid a salary for an expected 40h of work. That much I give, and I get a reasonable amount of work done in that 40h. You start asking me to regularly put in uncompensated nights and weekends because it's "needed?" I'm out. If there's that much work that it's that "needed," then really what you "need" is to hire more people. You start messing with my schedule too much with short notice... that disrupts my time outside of work which you are also not compensating me for, again I'm out.

Most millenials I know with crummy jobs are pissed off because they are locked into a bad situation by a need for healthcare/some sort of income, meanwhile their employers take advantage of this fact by shuffling their shifts around all the time (which really makes it extra hard to manage your life, you can never plan anything, it can disrupt your sleep schedule which is important to maintaining physical and mental health). It's a really bad situation. The employer will say "oh business is slow, go home now" which means now you get less pay than you expected. Or call you on your day off and say "you need to come in now" which messes things up the other way. Personally I don't think it's too much to ask employers to staff enough people to keep schedules sane and pay their staff for a full work week. Yes, this increases costs... but does America really need half price appetizers at Applebees?

And to your generation this makes absolute sense...

to the rest of us it sounds a lot like entitled whining.

Loving how this thread about getting outside in Florida turned to a patronizing pro-work-for-man-til-you-die rant

Don't inject the Pots

Buck Rio wrote: to the rest of us it sounds a lot like entitled whining.

If "your generation" is psyched on your employers doing their best to fuck you over and you all taking it due to some misplaced notion of virtue, then I'd say maybe we're (I'm 38) entitled whiners, but you're a bunch of dumbasses. :)

Buck Rio wrote:

And to your generation this makes absolute sense...

to the rest of us it sounds a lot like entitled whining.

if all you wanna do is sling mud and generalize gigantic groups of people via name calling, instead of maybe acknowledging that environments and attitudes have changed a little bit over the course of several decades.... welp it's mountainproject and that's your prerogative.

have fun training and retaining workers you already have decided you don't respect

Buck Rio wrote:

And to your generation this makes absolute sense...

to the rest of us it sounds a lot like entitled whining.

95% of the things that "millennials" are asking for are things their parents received and took for granted.

You'll never see a more entitled generation than the baby boomers.