Full coverage helmets

At a sport crag today there was an accident, a climber took a fall flipped upside down on a slab and hit their head on the wall, seemed like it could be a very serious injury.  Many people at these kinds of areas don't wear a helmet, and the few who do are wearing more basic helmets without any protection other than on the top.

I just want to point out the importance of a good helmet, even for an easy sport climb.

It’s a bit of a paradox for new leaders that the easiest routes have the sketchiest fall potential. Falling on low angle terrain typically has the worst consequences. Hope the climber you saw today is okay. 

Larry S wrote: 
I just want to point out the importance of a good helmet, even for an easily sport climb.

Wanna know what's more important than a helmet? Don't put your stupid leg behind the rope and fall inverted. Problem solved. 

J. Albers wrote:

Wanna know what's more important than a helmet? Don't put your stupid leg behind the rope and fall inverted. Problem solved. 

On low angle, ledgy, blocky terrain, there are plenty of other things that can flip you. Hell, just a little show friction and a tiny lip could do it. 

I definitely see a lot of people wearing the helmets that are not fitted/adjusted properly.

And plenty of instances of wearing helmets that aren’t the optimal ones for the type of climbing they do. (E.g. wearing the hard shell helmet that is meant more for protecting you from falling debris on single-pitch sport climbing, where their primary concern is inversion, and a foam helmet protecting the back of the head would be more appropriate than the hardshell)

Some people are also more prone to flip over, even without the rope behind their foot. I’ve seen it more with tall/lanky guys, possibly because their center of gravity is relatively high, in relation to the harness belt...  I think it is a combination of factors, such as not knowing how to fall/lack of coordination, drawing into a tight ball, instead of falling like a cat, poor harness fit...

J. Albers wrote:

Wanna know what's more important than a helmet? Don't put your stupid leg behind the rope and fall inverted. Problem solved. 

J. Albers wrote:

Wanna know what's more important than a helmet? Don't put your stupid leg behind the rope and fall inverted. Problem solved. 

He caught an edge with his feet during the fall, bounced off, and was sent inverted.

I love how someone can start a thread about a subject that deserves discussion and someone can oversimplify the whole situation into a one-liner without knowing anything about the situation.  These type of replies always seem to come off negative and accusatory. Thank you J, for your pearl, but the climber didnt have their foot behind the rope, and had a good belay.  As said above, slab falls, especially some of the easier ones that are a bit run out can have the highest consequence. The only thing that I thought could have made a difference in this case would have been if the climber intentionally let go and allowed themself to road rash their way down on their chest. Even doing this, they could have gotten entangled or caught their foot and been flipped. Ultimately sometimes all you have is your head to stop you.

Spent a while looking for helmets better suited for this sort of thing.  Would love some reccomendations. Nothing seems to be “rated” for this sort of thing.

Every major manufacturer has them... the black diamond vector and vapor helmets, mammut rockrider, petzl sirocco.... look for a full eps construction, like a bike helmet.  The bottom end models, like the black diamond half dome, have a hard shell, but the only energy absorbing part is right on top of the head.  They are better than nothing for side and back impact, but have no energy absorption in those areas.  They are primarily for protection against falling objects.  The tough part of these better helmets is they are also more fragile.  The hard shell construction lasts longer and takes abuse better.  So you pay more for the better protection helmet, and need to replace it more often too.

J. Albers wrote:

Wanna know what's more important than a helmet? Don't put your stupid leg behind the rope and fall inverted. Problem solved. 

Problem not solved. On slab climbs just about anytime your hips pass your feet while falling on slab you’re gonna invert. Trying to do a high step smear on some crimps? Possibility of inversion with you’re hips high up and you slip off the crimps. Trying to back peddle out of the fall on a slab? High chance for hips behind feet and is a difficult balancing act. Leaning into the cheese grate down that already feels unnatural can be very hard to do depending on the body position.

More helmets with full coverage... Petzl Meteor, petzl boreo, camp storm, edelrid shield, tango zenith, mammut wallrider....

Jimmy Bricker wrote: I love how someone can start a thread about a subject that deserves discussion and someone can oversimplify the whole situation into a one-liner without knowing anything about the situation.  These type of replies always seem to come off negative and accusatory. Thank you J, for your pearl, but the climber didnt have their foot behind the rope, and had a good belay.  As said above, slab falls, especially some of the easier ones that are a bit run out can have the highest consequence. The only thing that I thought could have made a difference in this case would have been if the climber intentionally let go and allowed themself to road rash their way down on their chest. Even doing this, they could have gotten entangled or caught their foot and been flipped. Ultimately sometimes all you have is your head to stop you.

Spent a while looking for helmets better suited for this sort of thing.  Would love some reccomendations. Nothing seems to be “rated” for this sort of thing.

Helmets can't hurt but learning to fall/not fall is better!

J. Albers wrote:

Wanna know what's more important than a helmet? Don't put your stupid leg behind the rope and fall inverted. Problem solved. 

You passed the lead test in the gym? Congratulations!

Your instincts are good. ABS (shell) helmets do a great job of protecting you falling stuff and foam helmets to a great job of protecting your noggin during tumbling falls. Both styles will pass the CE tests and most will also pass the stiffer UIAA standard. 

I’ve got 2 favorite helmets. The Petzl Boreo and the Black Diamond Vapor. I’’ve got a big melon and they both fit well without weird spots or jiggling around too much. The Vapor is for when I want to be cool at the crag but its so light weight and the skin is so thin that after a few months it looks like a golf ball. The Boreo is for ice climbing and alpine stuff: With it’s ABS shell and full foam liner I think it’s the safest helmet around. 

BTW, I think helmet weight is a bit over rated. My neck gets sore regardless of whether or not I’m wearing a helmet so I wear that one that fits well and protects the best. The side-by-side vegetable test gives you very little useful information. It’s the fit, stupid!

To test for fit: Put the helmet on without buckling it up and snug up the back adjustor. Now shake your head with the universal “NO” movement. Does it stay where it’s supposed to? If not, find another helmet. Now buckle it up so that it is just slightly snug. Too tight and you’ll hate it. Is the “Y” joint where the front and back come together located under your ear lobe? If not, fiddle with the adjustments until it is. Now, test for a secure fit: push up the back edge of the helmet To see if it rocks down down into your eyes easily. Push up on the front edge to see if the helmet can slip back to the back of your head like a Yarmulkes. If either of these happen you need to adjust the yoke so that neither happen. Finally, if you wear belay specs make sure there is clearance for these.
And, finally, the safest helmet is the one on your head. 
Climb safe,Mal

Mammut is also the only company offering a Mips climbing helmet which reduces the rotational forces one experiences as a result of a directional impact.

DRusso wrote: Mammut is also the only company offering a Mips climbing helmet which reduces the rotational forces one experiences as a result of a directional impact.

That's one way to waste your money.

Mike G wrote:

Problem not solved. On slab climbs just about anytime your hips pass your feet while falling on slab you’re gonna invert. 

Sheesh. A lot you people act like inverting falling is a given. Its not. And if you are falling inverted, you are almost certainly doing something wrong. There is a time and a place for a helmet for sure, and I definitely wear a helmet on some routes (I never leave the ground on R-rated routes, trad, multipitch, ice, or alpine without one). That said, it is extremely tiring to hear people go on and on about how a helmet keeps you safe. It can help for sure. But perhaps more important than a helmet is learning how to NOT FALL INVERTED. Accidents do happen and sure, freak things like catching an edge weird can cause you to go upside down. But if you lack control of your body to the point that you go inverted if you fall while mantling, or you go inverted because you are on a slab, well then you need to spend some time learning how to climb in more controlled manner. And ledgy terrain? If its sport bolted, then you shouldn't be hitting ledges period or you and your belayer screwed up. And if its run out? Don't fall!! Seriously. That's what going to keep you safe. I see this kind of attitude all the time out climbing these days. Sketch fest person climbing, but hey, they have a helmet on, so press onward!! Wrong idea. 

Between my close partners and I there are literally over a hundred years of climbing experience and none of those people are getting hurt taking inverted falls. And no, they aren't noobs, many of them have been climbing since the 70's doing varied types of climbing from runout slab routes on the Apron, to tightly bolted sport routes, to ice on the Parkway. Climbing is supposed to be an apprenticeship that means more than just how hard you can pull. Don't gloss over that fact by putting on a helmet and thinking you're "safe". Ask yourself this. When you watch Dawn Wall, do you see Tommy and Kevin wearing helmets the majority of the time? Nope. And it sure seems like they are falling a lot. Probably more falls than everyone on this forum (myself included) have taken all year. And its not their mad thumb pressing skills on vert that are keeping them safe. Its that they are in control of their bodies so that don't take bad falls. Give that some thought. \

And to be clear, I'm NOT telling anyone not to wear a helmet. I'm just speaking to the context that people talk about helmets whereby people give an example of where a helmet did or would have helped but where they make no mention of the more important aspect, which was the manner in which the climber was climbing.

J. Albers wrote:

Sheesh. A lot you people act like inverting falling is a given. Its not. And if you are falling inverted, you are almost certainly doing something wrong. There is a time and a place for a helmet for sure, and I definitely wear a helmet on some routes (I never leave the ground on R-rated routes, trad, multipitch, ice, or alpine without one). That said, it is extremely tiring to hear people go on and on about how a helmet keeps you safe. It can help for sure. But perhaps more important than a helmet is learning how to NOT FALL INVERTED. Accidents do happen and sure, freak things like catching an edge weird can cause you to go upside down. But if you lack control of your body to the point that you go inverted if you fall while mantling, or you go inverted because you are on a slab, well then you need to spend some time learning how to climb in more controlled manner. And ledgy terrain? If its sport bolted, then you shouldn't be hitting ledges period or you and your belayer screwed up. And if its run out? Don't fall!! Seriously. That's what going to keep you safe. I see this kind of attitude all the time out climbing these days. Sketch fest person climbing, but hey, they have a helmet on, so press onward!! Wrong idea. 

Between my close partners and I there are literally over a hundred years of climbing experience and none of those people are getting hurt taking inverted falls. And no, they aren't noobs, many of them have been climbing since the 70's doing varied types of climbing from runout slab routes on the Apron, to tightly bolted sport routes, to ice on the Parkway. Climbing is supposed to be an apprenticeship that means more than just how hard you can pull. Don't gloss over that fact by putting on a helmet and thinking you're "safe". Ask yourself this. When you watch Dawn Wall, do you see Tommy and Kevin wearing helmets the majority of the time? Nope. And it sure seems like they are falling a lot. Probably more falls than everyone on this forum (myself included) have taken all year. And its not their mad thumb pressing skills on vert that are keeping them safe. Its that they are in control of their bodies so that don't take bad falls. Give that some thought. \

And to be clear, I'm NOT telling anyone not to wear a helmet. I'm just speaking to the context that people talk about helmets whereby people give an example of where a helmet did or would have helped but where they make no mention of the more important aspect, which was the manner in which the climber was climbing.

Lol, the standard MP "I don't make mistakes" rant.

There are always going to be people that claim they don't need some safety device because they have a special gift for avoiding accidents. I know guys that don't wear helmets on a motorcycle in rush hour traffic because they are attentive, experienced riders. It won't happen to them!

Val wrote:

That's one way to waste your money.

MIPS works; unlike most helmet technologies that purport to "mitigate concussion", MIPS has actually been shown to reduce brain injury risk. For example: 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457518303713

Sloppy Second wrote:

Lol, the standard MP "I don't make mistakes" rant.

There are always going to be people that claim they don't need some safety device because they have a special gift for avoiding accidents. I know guys that don't wear helmets on a motorcycle in rush hour traffic because they are attentive, experienced riders. It won't happen to them!

That is such a complete false equivalency, its hard to even take you seriously. When you ride a motorcycle, there are a sh*t ton of variables beyond your control that can lead to an accident with dire consequences. When you're sport climbing, there are very few objective hazards and thus your safety is, to a very large degree, completely under your and your belayers control. And that's difference between wearing a helmet on an alpine "sport" route (notable objective hazards) versus a cleaned up single pitch crag (low objective hazard circumstance). And if you can't differentiate between the two, then I don't know what to tell you.