Full coverage helmets
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Larry S wrote: This. The "don't put your leg behind the rope" is a climbing 101 answer that avoids the fact that these falls can and do happen. I fell off a route about 10-12 feet to the right and up from my gear. Foot dragged a bit as I came off and I ended up inverting and slamming the back of my head against the wall. I was wearing a plastic basic BD helmet. I got a concussion and now only wear full coverage foam helmets. |
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J. Albers wrote: Nobody acted as though it’s a given, inversion does however have a higher probability of happening on slab due to the points already mentioned. There’s just more variables and more potential for accidents. All statements directed at you were about your inaccurate to this occurrence statement of “don’t step in front of the rope” which is a fantastic rule but does not apply here. |
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J. Albers wrote: I can differentiate between different levels of risk and consequence. What I cannot do is tell others what their personal comfort level should be. |
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What are the core design differences between a MIPs climbing helmet and something like a Bell super MTB w/ MIPs? It doesn't look like it from the pictures but the Super MTB has much more coverage and is twice as heavy (still under 16oz). I agree that always wear a helmet leading is good advice for a new climber but have often wondered if the helmets worn are ideal. Most climbing helmets are designed for falling objects, weight, and other impacts; likely in this order. For a new single pitch leader where headstikes are more likely than falling objects is a MTB helmet more ideal than a climbing helmet? |
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Jason Eberhard wrote: What are the core design differences between a MIPs climbing helmet and something like a Bell super MTB w/ MIPs? It doesn't look like it from the pictures but the Super MTB has much more coverage and is twice as heavy (still under 16oz). I agree that always wear a helmet leading is good advice for a new climber but have often wondered if the helmets worn are ideal. Most climbing helmets are designed for falling objects, weight, and other impacts; likely in this order. For a new single pitch leader where headstikes are more likely than falling objects is a MTB helmet more ideal than a climbing helmet? The hard plastic on top of the wall rider is puncture resistant to deal with falling rocks, more so than the shell of a bike helmet. Other than that, I would guess that the foam liner of the wall rider is thinner than the bike helmet and provides less head coverage. So the bike helmet may provide better protection against a head strike. It all depends on the testing standards that the helmet has been designed to pass... |
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J. Albers wrote: I was there for this incident. The climber caught a draw or edge with his foot and flipped. No back step. Only error was not putting on a helmet. Gonna be "that person" giving out helmets from now on. But definitely no use in personally criticizing someone's climbing technique, let's focus on general prevention and protection. And educate newer climbers at the crag without being jerks. |
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S M wrote: I BIG second J Albers. Learn to climb better and you will avoid flipping over backwards. You should always be very aware of what will happen if you fall and adjust accordingly. Learn to accept criticism from people who know more than you with the mileage to prove it. |
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Tradiban wrote: If anyone is unsure about whether they are supposed to wear a helmet on a particular climb, call the Tradiban Hotline for specific guidance. |
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Tradiban wrote: The only way to "learn to climb better" is to climb. Which inherently means taking risks even if a Stonemaster is standing under you with a megaphone giving beta. A helmet is a necessity. Period. The mental image of the aftermath of this accident is all the proof I need of that. |
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A lot of assumptions and analogies going on in this thread (in usual MP style). There is some truth on both sides of these arguments, yes many (most?) traumatic brain injuries in climbing are in your control. Rockfall from above is inherently rare - if anything the leader is more likely to pull something off and clock the belayer. New climbers getting ropes caught behind the leg is much more common, but now we have two first hand accounts of this incident saying that was not the case. Shit can happen, and usually it happens in an instant. |
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S M wrote: Ummm...no. To learn to climb better you need to think more about your climbing. It's not a mindless exercise. There should be a constant analysis going on, like a reverse meditation perhaps. However you want to think about it, it doesn't matter, just keep using yer brain to stay safe, a helmet helps but not alot. |
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Go Wisconsin!??? |
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IMO never take advice from sport climbers from Wisconsin. |
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Hah! The douchebaggery. Yep climb stronger, dont fall, you dont need a helmet if you are tough enough. |
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Jimmy Bricker wrote: Hah! The douchebaggery. Yep climb stronger, dont fall, you dont need a helmet if you are tough enough. Couldn’t have said it better. I was also there yesterday and it happened in an instant. Climbing is an exercise in risk management. Erring in the side of caution with a helmet could have changed the outcome dramatically for the better. Instead, a mid 20 year old is in the hospital with a possibility for a long recovery road at best. Think of those around you. Open skull fractures aren’t pretty. |
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This is Kelly Cordes’ head after falling on a 5.13 overhanging sport route. ‘Nuff said... Climb safe, wear a helmet. Kelly does. Now. Mal Edited for link to Kelly’s story: Now that’s a hard head! |
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Larry S wrote: More helmets with full coverage... Petzl Meteor, petzl boreo, camp storm, edelrid shield, tango zenith, mammut wallrider.... If anyone has had a serious look at the foam helmet market recently, please advice which helmet gives the best coverage at the rear of the head. Last time I checked a couple of years back I was mightily disappointed as it seemed that all manufacturers were only trying to pass the UIAA test, which doesn't (or at least didn't) test for side or rear impact. I ended up with the BD Vector, but was not satisfied with the "inverted U cutout" at the rear end leaving the most sensitive part of the skull wide open. |
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Malcolm Daly wrote: This is Kelly Cordes’ head after falling on a 5.13 overhanging sport route. Jebus is that ugly. Bet Kelly lost a lot of blood. Hope he is okay and didn't suffer any long term head trauma. Care to elaborate on how that occurred on an overhanging sport route though? And that's a serious question, I'm not trying to be d*ck here. That said (and you can correct me if I'm wrong), what you're implying here is that if Kelly Cordes can split his head on an overhanging sport route, than it can happen to anyone. The underlying assumption there is that Kelly is a pro, ergo he is plenty competent and this injury was a random/unlucky occurrence and was not associated with a pretty grave mistake. To which my response would be, well, plenty of experienced folks have bad habits that could cause this. Anyway, it would be good to know what exactly happened. |
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Jimmy Bricker wrote: Hah! The douchebaggery. Yep climb stronger, dont fall, you dont need a helmet if you are tough enough. You are completely missing the point. Its got nothing to do with climbing harder or being tough. All some of us are pointing out is that "these days" there appear to be a lot of climbers out there who are helmet preachers, but what they really (really) need to do is spend more time thinking and focusing on how they climb because THAT in the long run is what will keep them safe. The helmet might help a bit in some circumstances, but what will really help is not getting yourself in a bad position in the first place. Its really not people being preachy douchebags (though you can take it that way if you like), rather its just folks trying to get people to not put so much credence into thinking that a helmet will do more than it will. |