Ridiculous Climbing Gym Policies...Let's Hear Them

At times, this has been a very entertaining thread. With more entertainment in mind, and to contrast with typical USA gym policies, how abouts if I list off some of the gym rules at our local "rocódromo" here in Barcelona. To wit:

--It is mandatory that you use whatever belay device is currently on the market anywhere in the world.

--If you use a Grigri, it is mandatory to use it in the way that you think is best.

--Your harness is required to not fall off when you walk from one climb to the next.

--It is mandatory to do your belay testing--whether for lead or TR belays--on your own time, either before coming to the gym, or right there in the gym itself just before your first route. The instructor is required to be a good friend who knows more than you.

--It is obligatory to have at least one friend to encourage you (and to instruct you) if you wish to lead a route. Having a small group of such friends shouting instructions up to you is even better and is encouraged.

--Back clipping and z-clipping are no-nos to be taught through first-hand experience on your first lead routes in the gym--not through a boring lecture from a gym employee.

--The soft catch versus hard catch topic is considered intimate and confidential and to be discussed only between close climbing partners (with occasional and timely not-so-sotto-voce comments from the peanut gallery at the bar allowed, of course).

--The only footwear allowed throughout the gym, including bathrooms, is climbing shoes, street shoes/sandals, socks, and bare feet.

--You must bring your own lead rope and it must be of a diameter between 8mm and 11.5mm. It also must be "long enough", "dynamic enough", and "not too old".

--Autobelays can only be used on routes off to the left and right of where they hang if (and only if) the autobelay tape is long enough to reach the start of the climb you want to do. (ROT: up to 60 degrees off the plumb line maximum.)

--Ripped male climbers and bad-ass female climbers are encouraged to dress shirtless and in tight spandex (respectively), especially if said climbers are working those mean overhanging routes on the big roof in the main gallery. This helps sell more beers to the peanut gallery sitting at the tables at the cafe.

--There are special gym days that allow free entry to a girlfriend or boyfriend who has never climbed--but only if the climber in the pair can flash the 7a gym routes (roughly 5.11+/5.12) and the newbie-first-time-at-the-gym climbs in an ill-fitted harness, designer jeans, and running shoes.

--It is mandatory that one birthday party a day be scheduled for a child between the ages of 4 and 8. Attendance minimum: 40 little guests, plus parents.

--Helmets are optional for all except those enrolled in an official gym course or attending a scheduled birthday party--then the helmet must be worn on the back of the head.

Hmmm...what have I missed. I'll edit if I think of anything else.

Yes, I exaggerate and, yes, I sometimes miss the big luxurious gyms we have in some places back in the States. But I also find the laissez-faire attitude over here--and the whole social scene/family thing--to be very refreshing.

¡Joder!

Stone Summit has failed my belay cert several times (Kennessaw, Georgia) because "my hands shake." I have CTE. My hands shake all the time. Meanwhile, The owner of Adrenaline Climbing in Buford, Georgia climbed for me personally while I was certed because I don't have a belaytionship at that gym. My home gym's, Active Climbing in Athens (and my apparel sponsor), owner in Athens, Georgia has strung up my rope on his master points, so I can see how it feels belaying and climbing. And we both tied in with no doubt of our competency (took turns climbing and belaying). Maybe why my shirt I have on has the Active logo and says, "Train Inside" on the front. "Climb Outside" on the back.

But I'm with some other people: it's a gym. Climb on. Train inside to climb outside.

Tradiban wrote:

Most gym employees are kids getting minimum wage, so I wouldn't expect much from them. 

You know where I climb at the gym. So this is an honest question because I value your insight into that business: Do you think that they can only AFFORD to pay low-to-minimum wage, or is it a choice? I find it hard to believe that a business with several thousand members, a lucrative birthday party sideline, and a retail store is running at such thin margins that they couldn't afford to pay a living wage and set higher standards for employees, particularly those in front-line safety positions.

They have some really terrific employees, too, who I hope are getting a lot more than what you describe. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

You know where I climb at the gym. So this is an honest question because I value your insight into that business: Do you think that they can only AFFORD to pay low-to-minimum wage, or is it a choice? I find it hard to believe that a business with several thousand members, a lucrative birthday party sideline, and a retail store is running at such thin margins that they couldn't afford to pay a living wage and set higher standards for employees, particularly those in front-line safety positions.

They have some really terrific employees, too, who I hope are getting a lot more than what you describe. 

My local gym has mostly younger people working there as well, but the managers are all in their 40's-50's, and seem to do well. The birthday party thing is a necessary evil, I'm afraid...how they keep my membership so low. 

We now have a bouldering only facility that has a sweet gym, with multiple racks, a squat only rack with the raised rubberized flooring and all. Kettlebells, bands, TRX, many med balls a few bikes, ellipticals and treadmills...dumbbells up to 80 lbs...rings, pull-up machine or many different height bars.  Really top notch gym, AND a medium sized yoga studio, with a waterfall (OK, I made that up). Also tucked in a corner is a crack machine from fingers to OW. They need to put some texture in it though it is too smooth.

I don't mind the B-day party thing at all at my gym. They have a whole separate facility for that. 

Señor Arroz wrote: I don't mind the B-day party thing at all at my gym. They have a whole separate facility for that. 

How big is your gym? One of our facilities has separate rooms for the food and such, but no special climbing area, so the kids come out and grease the holds for you.

One of my local gyms has only one rule, just the one. If you take a beer from the crates behind the boulder wall you MUST put €1 in the cashbox.

Buck Rio wrote:

How big is your gym? One of our facilities has separate rooms for the food and such, but no special climbing area, so the kids come out and grease the holds for you.

It's huge, Buck. And was purpose built. The B-day party thing is an enormous revenue center, and I'm glad they built a distinct area for it. I think of it as the casino that pays for all the fun stuff I like to use.

My old gym was in a converted warehouse and had lines of excited kids in sneakers running all over and under us regular members at all times. And, yes, greasing the holds with pizza for us.

Señor Arroz wrote:

It's huge, Buck. And was purpose built. The B-day party thing is an enormous revenue center, and I'm glad they built a distinct area for it. I think of it as the casino that pays for all the fun stuff I like to use.

My old gym was in a converted warehouse and had lines of excited kids in sneakers running all over and under us regular members at all times. And, yes, greasing the holds with pizza for us.

Looks like it is $$$. 

I paid $459 for a full year, unlimited and I think that is a pretty good deal.

Buck Rio wrote:

Looks like it is $$$. 

I paid $459 for a full year, unlimited and I think that is a pretty good deal.

That is a great deal. I think annual at my gym is about $800. My own membership cost is $59 month but it's buried in a mountain of comp team fees and other costs that add up to a LOT. 

Señor Arroz wrote: Derrick, I agree with you on both your points. But, unfortunately, that's not what endless people, including gym employees, mean by a "soft catch."

I see it all the time where people being taught as part of their "intro to lead belaying" that they must always jump into the catch to give their climber a soft catch on dead vertical walls. As if humans are made of fragile crystal and ropes don't give any stretch. And ignoring the obvious facts of physics that you wisely observed above.

Really, it's the name that causes all the problems. Because I'm sure we all like the idea of being caught, softly. And the name, "dangerous pendulum-reducing catch for overhanging falls" just never really caught on, apparently.

Ok, I think we’re arguing around each other then, because my definition of a soft catch is much more in line with what Derrick said.

Mr. Rice, you know your Spanish. (Daniel, el bien jodido).

Señor Arroz wrote:

You know where I climb at the gym. So this is an honest question because I value your insight into that business: Do you think that they can only AFFORD to pay low-to-minimum wage, or is it a choice? I find it hard to believe that a business with several thousand members, a lucrative birthday party sideline, and a retail store is running at such thin margins that they couldn't afford to pay a living wage and set higher standards for employees, particularly those in front-line safety positions.

They have some really terrific employees, too, who I hope are getting a lot more than what you describe. 

Like any business they will try to get away with the least pay possible. The specific problem at gyms is that desk staff usually also does instruction and testing but really they are two different jobs that should have separate pay scales. I would separate these jobs and pay accordingly, with desk probably making minimum plus sales bonus and instructors making an "instructor" rate. Management would be slim but well paid and on salary.

Grad students were my best employees, didn't really care about pay and usually pretty smart. Problem is the turnover, so I was hiring constantly.

Gyms may appear to make gobs of money but in reality initial investment is high and quite a few employees are needed to keep it going. Compare the staffing to a LA Fitness and you will see what I mean.

Regular gyms are also WAY more popular currently with many many members who pay but don't show up which is the corner stone of the gym business. This hides the real profit gyms make. Climbing gyms have a much higher attendance rate making them look busier than a regular gym but with less profit.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Ok, I think we’re arguing around each other then, because my definition of a soft catch is much more in line with what Derrick said.

I agree. What you're referring to as a "soft catch" isn't what gyms are telling people to do. Here's a great quote from Touchstone Gym's tutorial on soft catches: "...Make sure to hold onto the end of the rope so it stays in your hand. If the climber falls, wait until you see the rope becomes comes taut onto the last clipped draw, and then jump into the air. Jumping will add slack to the system and make the fall more gentle."

I love the part about holding onto the "end of the rope" but forgetting about that for second, let's see what they're asking someone to do. First, in the split second your climber is falling "wait until you see the rope becomes taught" then, and only then, "Jump into the air."  And that perfectly executed, perfectly timed jump will "make the fall more gentle."

Call me crazy, I just want my partner to catch me when I fall. I'm not asking for her to be The Flash.

Señor Arroz wrote: "wait until you see the rope becomes taught" then, and only the, "Jump into the air."  And that perfectly executed, perfectly timed jump will "make the fall more gentle."

Call me crazy, I just want my partner to catch me when I fall. I'm not asking for her to be The Flash.

I went out to Namaste Wall with a couple of buddies. I was belaying one of them on Namaste. The route is about 150 ft long, and starts off with a steep overhang that curves gently to near vertical. No roof lip to add harsh rope drag. My leader was out of sight, so I maintained slack so I wouldn't inhibit any big moves and ruin his flow, and I could stay ahead of his clips--when slack gets quickly taken by the leader, and any tension adds valuable seconds to which they're forced to cling to the climb (unsympathetic people that call themselves climbers remain ignorant to this principal, the principal being that some climbers want to fight their fear, push their boundaries, and send their hard process, whatever style of climb or grade that may be. A belayer is a trusted team mate). My leader called out that he was about to fall. I was already bent slightly at the knees, since I couldn't see him, and I knew he wasn't strong enough to flash 11+. I bent at the knees more, gently took slack out between me and the first draw, without pulling on him, and yelled OK at him. I watched the rope pull tight, and squatting gave me enough extension range in my legs that when I felt the pull in my harness, the load was pulling me while I initiated the power to jump, so the dots were connecting by the time my legs became straight. I floated up toward the first draw, and slowed gently to a halt. I never saw my leader hanging at the end of his fall, for he was high enough on the route. Think about what needs to happen, see yourself doing it, and if you want it badly enough, with practice, you can be The Flash. Going for that ride in my harness is like, literally, going for a ride, for me! I not only enjoy belaying when people fight to their limit and whip, Vs. Hanging like a lazy sack of scared potatoes, but I like to be a strong link in my team, as well. Take good care of your partner. Aiming high and excelling at belaying may save someone's ankles, ribs, and skull. I don't want a lazy sack of potatoes standing straight-legged, simply locking down, when I'm pushing my limit, and worried about my orientation to the wall before I do that dyno that might send me spiraling 25 ft in the direction of gravity, only building up to terminal velocity. 

Heavy leader, near the ground? It's obvious, eh?

If you don't understand how this can be possible in a human fall arrest system, you've done no research, you haven't practiced, and you're inexperienced. Or, you're just a stubborn old salt that refuses to change with the evolution, cuz you're jealous of the younger generation 'n stuff. We'll be here when you're gone, and your old ways will be replaced anyways, cuz it's better. I've been disappointed by old timers at the belay several times.

Cool story Flash

Paul Hutton wrote:

I went out to Namaste Wall with a couple of buddies..... [Long story clipped here]]

If you don't understand how this can be possible in a human fall arrest system, you've done no research, you haven't practiced, and you're inexperienced. Or, you're just a stubborn old salt that refuses to change with the evolution, cuz you're jealous of the younger generation 'n stuff. We'll be here when you're gone, and your old ways will be replaced anyways, cuz it's better. I've been disappointed by old timers at the belay several times.

What makes you think I don't understand how to soft catch someone? I think a soft catch is a great thing to do in an APPROPRIATE situation. I'm a huge advocate of dynamic belaying, too.  If you read the thread, you'd know I'm talking about a gym failing a beginning belayer (who had completed that gym's lead class, too) for not soft catching someone on a vertical, non-overhanging wall. And the Touchstone tutorial is just idiotic: "wait until you SEE that the rope becomes taught on the last draw..." That's what the Flash reference is to.

In your story, several things are important: #1. you anticipated the fall because you knew your climber wasn't strong enough to flash that climb. #2. Your climber actually called it out. #3. as you said, your climber was out of sight, so clearly you weren't going to wait until you saw that the rope was coming tight on the last draw. You anticipated and sprung when the rope tightened on you. And #4. You were on an actual overhanging route, where it matters.

Yeah, those are bad directions.  I usually go by feel more than anything...you shouldn’t have to watch for the rope to go taut, you should be watching your climber.  Most of the time it isn’t a “jump,” really...I just let myself be carried up, unless I significantly outweigh the climber.  I would contrast this (what I do 90% of the time) with a “hard catch,” which is when you bear down and RESIST the upward pull because you’re worried about the climber decking.  Doing this unnecessarily IS a dick move and would be warranted to fail a gym test.

Señor Arroz wrote:

What makes you think I don't understand how to soft catch someone? I think a soft catch is a great thing to do in an APPROPRIATE situation. I'm a huge advocate of dynamic belaying, too.  If you read the thread, you'd know I'm talking about a gym failing a beginning belayer (who had completed that gym's lead class, too) for not soft catching someone on a vertical, non-overhanging wall. And the Touchstone tutorial is just idiotic: "wait until you SEE that the rope becomes taught on the last draw..." That's what the Flash reference is to.

Taught rope on the last draw should be changed to first draw, which can always be seen by the belayer. That's a solid factor, of very limited factors, that will help a belayer in timing their jump. And you should jump for falling leaders on vert. They're penduluming into it on every fall. When the energy doesn't get absorbed by the gear, and a good belayer, it impacts the leader. A dynamic rope loses stretch, and effectiveness.