Manufactured routes at Ten Sleep being called out

eli poss wrote:

BS. Plastic will never be able to completely mimic holds on real rock, and in the gym the placement or locations of holds tends to be more limited than what is available on real rock. In gym climbing, there simply aren't enough features to mimic the abundance of features of real rock and the freedom to use whatever you want as feet that best fits your body size/shape. 

A. Plastic holds can not only be poured to mimic real rock holds almost exactly, minus the texture, but also produce holds that would never be found outside. 

B. Placement and location of holds is literally wherever the F*$% setters want to put the holds, making it nearly limitless.

C. Refer to point "A"

D. Nobody is forcing you to follow the colors of the route bro, use the red foot while climbing the blue route!

E. This thread is about how gym climbs, especially outside, are way lame, so IDK why I've wasted time to post this. #trollingmyself   

MisterSir wrote: B. Placement and location of holds is literally wherever the F*$% setters want to put the holds, making it nearly limitless.

Not true unless you're using screw on, and still maybe not possible in some situations. For bolt on holds, you can only put holds in places where there are holes and t nuts. For screw ons, the variety of holds are a little bit more limited in screw on holds than bolt ons. Also, scaffolding connected to the wall and other factors may prevent the use of screw on holds. I've only worked as a route setter for 5 months and I can't even count the number of times I couldn't put a hold where I wanted to put it. 

Tradiban wrote: Besides just being outside there isn't really a difference between gym crack climbing and trad climbing. With all the drama and destruction traditional climbing has caused I think it would be in the sports best interest to push all of that indoors.

With all the pin pounding, crack widening, "cleaning", wall-shitting, trail (and rap station) making, crying, failing, flailing, crowding, arguing, dogging, screaming, welping, binge drinking, and standing around do trad climbers really care about the outdoors? Wouldn't they (and everyone else) be better off if they were indoors anyway?

You have a lot of really valid points. Thanks for pointing this out.

Phil Lauffen wrote:

You have a lot of really valid points. Thanks for pointing this out.

You can't trad climb indoors...yet!

Tradiban wrote:

You can't trad climb indoors...yet!

Technically this (??) is outdoors, but it is artificial "trad" climbing that could be built indoors.

They place gear in the cracks and take whippers.  See here.

Tradiban wrote:

You can't trad climb indoors...yet!

It's all vacuous definitions. I have felt like I was trad climbing indoors, therefore I was.

Tradiban wrote:

You can't trad climb indoors...yet!

Not according to this thread

eli poss wrote:

Not true unless you're using screw on, and still maybe not possible in some situations. For bolt on holds, you can only put holds in places where there are holes and t nuts. For screw ons, the variety of holds are a little bit more limited in screw on holds than bolt ons. Also, scaffolding connected to the wall and other factors may prevent the use of screw on holds. I've only worked as a route setter for 5 months and I can't even count the number of times I couldn't put a hold where I wanted to put it. 

Do your research, as you say you are a setter, they make many things for the sole purpose to place holds wherever the setters want. What you mentioned are very easily avoidable issues or non-issues. Nearly every bolt-on hold has a screw on alternative that functions the exact same and most of the trendy holds (flat holds, cheeta, etc.) make the majority of their holds in the form of screw ons. 

MisterSir wrote:

Do your research, as you say you are a setter, they make many things for the sole purpose to place holds wherever the setters want. What you mentioned are very easily avoidable issues or non-issues. Nearly every bolt-on hold has a screw on alternative that functions the exact same and most of the trendy holds (flat holds, cheeta, etc.) make the majority of their holds in the form of screw ons. 

Fair enough. However, there are places where you can't even get a screw on hold because you'd have to drill through the scaffolding. Maybe that's just unique to our shitty ass campus climbing wall. Which, if you're in the market for a climbing wall and reading this, don't use eldorado. Their craftsmanship on our wall is incredibly poor. For example, they used the lowest quality wood available and pound in t-nuts, and a lot of the holes aren't aligned properly so your bolt is grinding against the wood or the wall when you're trying to screw holds in (if you can even get it to screw in initially, which sometimes you can't). 

eli poss wrote:

Fair enough. However, there are places where you can't even get a screw on hold because you'd have to drill through the scaffolding. Maybe that's just unique to our shitty ass campus climbing wall. Which, if you're in the market for a climbing wall and reading this, don't use eldorado. Their craftsmanship on our wall is incredibly poor. For example, they used the lowest quality wood available and pound in t-nuts, and a lot of the holes aren't aligned properly so your bolt is grinding against the wood or the wall when you're trying to screw holds in (if you can even get it to screw in initially, which sometimes you can't). 

Seconded.

Jeffrey Constine wrote: Its now going on in the Owens River gorge/Malibu State Park and many other areas.

Not to diminish your main point that chipping is everywhere, but just to be clear, manufactured routes are not the norm at Owens.  There are a few manufactured routes at Owens (by a limited number of individuals), but it is not the norm.  Owens is a crag that was influenced by traditional development ethics since the beginning (Bachar bolted the first route in the Gorge).  The Gorge is well featured into the five 12 range.  The only chipped routes I know of are a few that are 5.12d to 5.13b range.  There was a little bit of experimentation here and there in the 1990s, but nowadays none of the recent hard routes are manufactured.  However, we did have an incident lately where a visiting climber glued a hold on Fight Club.  Weird.  Well, the locals already removed it. Ironically, that was one of the few chipped routes in the Gorge.   

Chipping is bad>>bolting is the same as chipping>>bolting is actually worse>>the green new deal will save it>>vegatarians are morons>>we shouldn't address climbing ethics because there's climate change>>I drive a truck>>sterilize all dudes immediately>>trad climbing is impossible inside gyms

I hate all of you so much, but I love ten sleep canyon 

Ty Gittins wrote: Chipping is bad>>bolting is the same as chipping>>bolting is actually worse>>the green new deal will save it>>vegatarians are morons>>we shouldn't address climbing ethics because there's climate change>>I drive a truck>>sterilize all dudes immediately>>trad climbing is impossible inside gym

This is a great MP setlist. Looks kinda like a Phish show, circa 1996, set 1..

Maybe set 2 brings the jam full circle, totally about to go back into the original MP crowdpleaser, Chipping Is Bad.. perhaps with a YEM tease. 

Divided Sky encore tho

(Edit: Sorry for the befuddlement Marc, past life nostalgia from the 90s, references probably not worth explaining.)

Jennie Matkov wrote:
From setlist: Phish, circa 1996, set 1..
Maybe set 2 brings jam full circle, totally about to go back into Chipping Is Bad, perhaps with a YEM tease. 
Divided Sky encore tho

What on earth are you talking about?

Marc801 C wrote:

What on earth are you talking about?

"Obviously, you're not a golfer..." 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVo8ruyvHas

Spurt climbing is fun.

Its gonna end with YEM>>stairway to heaven>>YEM encore (and Jimmy Page sitting in), and I'd say that this is more of a 97 setlist

Rich Farnham wrote:

"Obviously, you're not a golfer..." 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVo8ruyvHas

Yeah... I don't get that one, either. 

And I did see The Big Lebowski - thought it sucked; wanted my 2 hrs of life back.

Marc801 C wrote:

Yeah... I don't get that one, either. 

And I did see The Big Lebowski - thought it sucked; wanted my 2 hrs of life back.

obliviously you're not a golfer

Marc801 C wrote:

Yeah... I don't get that one, either. 

And I did see The Big Lebowski - thought it sucked; wanted my 2 hrs of life back.

Yeah, you’re just a clever troll.