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Manufactured routes at Ten Sleep being called out


Original Post
Daniel James · · 2018/19: Bristol, England · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 780

Charlie Kardaleff, Aaron Huey, and JB Haab have an open letter shared on the Ten Sleep Canyon Facebook page calling out extensive chipping, drilling, and gluing occurring at Ten Sleep, to the point of entire crags being essentially fabricated.  

Their summary is as follows:

- Ten Sleep Canyon is getting chipped, drilled, and glued to death
- It’s not a few routes, or a few holds, it is substantial manufacturing
- Reports from locals are of entire crags put up over the past 3 seasons with heavy fabrication
- We want it to stop
- We think that the routes should be removed from the walls and guidebooks
See https://www.facebook.com/tensleepcanyon/photos/rpp.490697651134596/968354203368936/?type=3&theater 

In the comments is also a more pointed letter calling out a specific developer:
Pt1 and Pt2

Figured I'd bring attention to this over here, and also hear input from more locals/regulars (having personally only briefly visited Ten Sleep when I was based in the Black Hills)
Carolina · · Front Range NC · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 75

so sad to hear. I’d be ok with a public flogging.

Mike Knight · · Canton, Mi · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 50

Wow. Unbelievable. 

Brother Numsie · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880

I was wondering what took so long for the discussion to get started here. Ought to be an interesting thread.

. Mobes · · MDI, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 865

Limestone choss - tough call with no pictures to back up the claims. This canyon is HUGE and is pretty darn sharp and vertical. I can see not many people wanting to climb super hard razor blade routes. 

Brother Numsie · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880
Carolina · · Front Range NC · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 75
. Mobes wrote: Limestone choss - tough call with no pictures to back up the claims. This canyon is HUGE and is pretty darn sharp and vertical. I can see not many people wanting to climb super hard razor blade routes. 

I believe its dolomite not limestone.  But i tend to agree about the choss comment.  

That canyon ain’t all that big and it certainly not big enough for folks to chip holds.
the schmuck · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 115

Well, Huey, Kardaleff et. al. have glued and comfortized themselves, which you kind of have to do with limestone, but I agree that the manufacturing is getting out of hand. For example, the blank section of Slavery Wall, to the left of Crown Prince Abdulah, is now completely manufactured.

I don't know about route removal, as there are several hundred of these across the crags now (& I won't lie, they are fun), but yeah, it does need to stop. Ten Sleep is a very user friendly sport crag, but it is not a gym. 

Richard Burnett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 10

I like the part where they say "our canyon is full of beautiful natural lines and when those run out we need to stop bolting it.". No dude, we need to stop bolting way before that happens. As more and more people start climbing and bolting we need to, as a community, put some system of quality control in place. Otherwise whatta expect?
 Take the red river. If you take a shit at one of the coalition owned crags you better believe there will be a bolt in it the next time you go there, and it'll probably get a few stars in the next edition of the guide book to boot.

Tim Lutz · · Colo-Rado Springs · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 5
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

If the chipper is directly profiting from climbers, seems like a boycott would fix him right up.

Fehim Hasecic · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 155

So some chipping and manufacturing at higher level grades is OK but it’s not if the routes are 5.11 and lower. Double standards!
Some rock is just not meant to be climbed by anyone and if the original developers didn’t file holds to manufacture accessible routes then maybe none of this would be happening now.

bob branscomb · · Lander, WY · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 905

Absolutely unacceptable.  If you can't do it as it is, stash the ego and leave it for the next generation.  They should have a chance, as we have, to look at a piece of stone and wonder if they can do it.  If they can, then they can have that sense of achievement that we have been fortunate enough to have had.  When you hack something out so you can do it, you're ripping off the future, denying those young'ns an essential experience of climbing just so you can get your name in the guidebook and feed your ego.  It's a betrayal of the future generations and they won't thank you for your moronic effort.

Tim Lutz · · Colo-Rado Springs · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 5

This wouldn't happen to have anything to do with Anderson's guidebook threatening sales of Huey's leather-bound $100 guidebook?

hmmm.....

Guy H. · · Fort Collins CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 7,793
Tim Lutz wrote: This wouldn't happen to have anything to do with Anderson's guidebook threatening sales of Huey's leather-bound $100 guidebook?

hmmm.....

You can buy a $25 version of that same guidebook.  Try again...

"Aaron has donated all his work for this BCC fundraiser guide and has given up any connection to author profits so that the BCC can use the profits to continue its work maintaining the routes, trails and relationships that make Ten Sleep Canyon loved by climbers from around the world. "
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510

GluieLouie?

Dudes, it's sport climbing, it IS gym climbing!

Jaren Watson · · Idaho · Joined May 2010 · Points: 2,505

Drilling holds? I don’t see where this is ever acceptable.

Comfortizing? I’m somewhat ambivalent, as I think a conservative approach can be judiciously applied. I admit to having “de-tuned” a crux hold on one route I put up.

Nearly everyone loves climbing on limestone—most, however, would have a very different opinion if they got on razor-sharp stone early in development.

Gluing? If you’re reinforcing the natural feature, I’m not against it. If you’re adding holds that weren’t initially there, I don’t see how that’s warranted.

My mind is not in a state of certainty about some of this.

Loyd Wofford III · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 75

We have manufactured a bunch of routes between ten sleep and devils tower here in Wyoming......... it is at our wonderful climbing gym in Gillette Wyoming! !! Which we are currently preparing for our annual comp this weekend on the 16th of Feb.  I have a great idea, why don't all the people who want manufactured holds come out and try our holds and routes.....
Disclaimer all of our holds are manufactured and chipped and broken as necessary to suit our gym.   If anyone feels the need to manufacture routes please contact me an come set for our big beautiful gym;)

See all you hard badass  at 9am for the toughest 42' on site comp in WYO. This Saturday!!!!!!!

Nick Votto · · CO, CT, IT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 320

Perpetrators should be permanently banned from Ten Sleep, this is disappointing 

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,510
Nick Votto wrote: Perpetrators should be permanently banned from Ten Sleep, this is disappointing 

Under what authority?

AndyMac · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 606

Is it this Louie Anderson?
https://www.louieandersonclimbing.com/

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Wyoming, Montana, Dakotas
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