Help Settle a Bet: L/R-Facing Corner Definition

A Polygamy Porter is on the line.

The other day I climbed “Offwidths are Beautiful” with a new partner. He and I got into a good-natured debate on whether the first pitch is a left-facing corner or a right-facing corner, and we decided to make a wager of it.

Right Facing

Right facing. How can this possibly be a debate? It’s a definition that’s perhaps 100 years old. 

Itsa corner, dear. :-)

But. My understanding, on a crack in a corner, is that the crack wall is the straight part that extends out from the crack. The other is the side wall.

To me, a corner is where the change occurs from the wall in general, so right facing, in your pic. But, hey, I live in dihedral land. About five different faces available for almost every climb, lol!

FWIW, the lead buys the belayer the beverage of their choice, IMO.

Best, Helen

The corner has a crack inside going both directions.

Interesting... I don't know that I've ever seen a formal definition. It may be an age-old definition, but where is it actually defined?

I've always assumed that it's the orientation of the corner with respect to the main wall, regardless of crack orientation. so in the below image, corners A and C are left-facing, and B and D are right facing. It seems that topos I've studied of big walls hold to this convention. Is this not the case?

Andrew for the WIN!! 10/10

I think Andrew has it when referring to the corner, book, whatever... I have also heard people describe the crack as left or right facing in line with what OLH said. So you can have a Left facing crack in a right facing corner. Either way in the photo both the corner and the crack are right facing.

1. Andrew nails it.
2. The direction the crack faces is irrelevant - it's all about the wall of the corner.

Try Cam wrote: A Polygamy Porter is on the line.

The other day I climbed “Offwidths are Beautiful” with a new partner. He and I got into a good-natured debate on whether the first pitch is a left-facing corner or a right-facing corner, and we decided to make a wager of it.

Would you call that a RFC or LFC?

2/10

thinly veiled spray in the form of a question/debate

Marc801 C wrote: 1. Andrew nails it.
2. The direction the crack faces is irrelevant - it's all about the wall of the corner.

So in other words, if the crack on Offwidths are Beautiful were on the other side of the corner, it would still be a right-facing corner?

Let's throw in another example, something slightly more well-known. He and I disagreed about this one as well:

RFC or LFC?

It doesn't matter where the crack is, it's always a right facing corner.  Maybe someone will get super specific with it and say it's a right facing corner with a crack on the right face or something, but that'll always be a right facing corner. 

Yup, thanks for the diagram, Andrew!

For me, it's a right facing corner. However, a route could specify to climb the left face of that right facing corner, the right face, or the offwidth. The "right facing corner" helps get me to the right place in the first place.

How a crack is oriented matters to me as a climber. I'm much stronger one way, than the other. I'm only just starting to be able to do these things at all.

I'm bad at reading topos though, so you people get to lead, if that's the case!

Best, Helen

Try Cam wrote:

So in other words, if the crack on Offwidths are Beautiful were on the other side of the corner, it would still be a right-facing corner?

Yes.

Let's throw in another example, something slightly more well-known. He and I disagreed about this one as well:

RFC or LFC?

This is getting painful - let's try again:

The direction the crack faces DOES NOT MATTER. The ONLY thing that defines a corner is which direction the corner wall faces. In that photo, it would still be a RFC even if there was no crack.

Old lady H wrote: For me, it's a right facing corner.

For the rest of the planet, too, except for the clueless.

 However, a route could specify to climb the left face of that right facing corner, the right face, or the offwidth.

Again, none of that matters as to if it's right or left facing.

 The "right facing corner" helps get me to the right place in the first place.

THAT is the point, not how it's climbed.

How a crack is oriented matters to me as a climber. I'm much stronger one way, than the other.

See above.

 I'm bad at reading topos though,...

Practice.

• The  main  face of the  wall is the  deciding factor.  The  sandstone  corner  is RF. The op was right  faceing.  

Matt N wrote:

2/10

thinly veiled spray in the form of a question/debate

1/5 for leaving your answer as an unreduced fraction.

The crack has nothing to do with it. What if there was no crack and you just stem the inside corner? As Andrew's diagram shows, the "direction" of the corner is relative to the main wall.

Marc801 C wrote: In that photo, it would still be a RFC even if there was no crack.

That makes sense. Thanks.

Marc801 C wrote: For the rest of the planet, too, except for the clueless.

Again, none of that matters as to if it's right or left facing.
THAT is the point, not how it's climbed.
See above.

Practice.

Well, yeah, we have no disagreement, sir, I specified between what you and everyone else says, and merely pointed out that the route, itself, might be three different parts of that right facing corner. Perhaps even three separate routes, and different grades. Sheesh. Like I said, I'm on dihedrals, here. Some routes specify you are "off" if you are on the arete, the right face, or whatever. One anchor usually gets you two routes, at least.

Unless you cheat off of everything you can reasonably get to, because you simply enjoying climbing the things. An advantage of top roping.

:-)

Old lady H wrote:

Well, yeah, we have no disagreement, sir, I specified between what you and everyone else says, and merely pointed out that the route, itself, might be three different parts of that right facing corner. Perhaps even three separate routes, and different grades.

We agree, but there appear to be some folks out there challenged by the concept.