More Autobelays bite the dust.

Another gym loses their death machines:

What kind if rental harnesses does Rockre use? Autobelays need to have simple non-gear loop harnesses so this doesn't happen, I used to cut them off our rentals for this reason.

Another idiot F-N it up for everyone else....Welcome to your future.

Tradiban wrote:Autobelays need to have simple non-gear loop harnesses so this doesn't happen, I used to cut them off our rentals for this reason.

How is this going to solve the problem? Will people climbing in non-rental harnesses be required to swap harnesses if they want a lap on autobelay? 

I hate those things, and wouldn’t mind if they went away forever everywhere. I never climb in autobelays if I can help it. But I don’t see how cutting gear loops off rental harnesses makes people safer. 

So painful.  Cannot believe that our legal system would even begin to support such a case.

But, on the bright side, the climbing gyms will not be so busy if they end up banning all auto-belays.

Lena chita wrote:

How is this going to solve the problem? Will people climbing in non-rental harnesses be required to swap harnesses if they want a lap on autobelay? 

I hate those things, and wouldn’t mind if they went away forever everywhere. I never climb in autobelays if I can help it. But I don’t see how cutting gear loops off rental harnesses makes people safer. 

I think the idea is that people with their own harnesses probably have enough sense as to what to use and what not to.  For rentals you give people only one option to clip to and it makes it a little less confusing. 

Lena chita wrote:

How is this going to solve the problem? Will people climbing in non-rental harnesses be required to swap harnesses if they want a lap on autobelay? 

No, in your own harness it's your own deal, in a rental harness it's the business' deal.

I hate those things, and wouldn’t mind if they went away forever everywhere. I never climb in autobelays if I can help it. But I don’t see how cutting gear loops off rental harnesses makes people safer. 

You cut off gear loops so people don't clip into them.

That’s actually a really good idea.  I assume this is also why we’re not allowed to serve hot coffee at the gym?

Bummer. While I didn't care much for autobelays initially, I've gotten used to them and they definitely serve a purpose for me. Why can't people take responsibility for their own actions? And why wouldn't you ask if you were unclear on where to clip in?

Personally...I love autobelays...

I visited a gym in Richmond a few months ago and part if the introduction was that before you used the autobelays you had to get a brief instruction and get certified. At the time I thought that was silly but after reading this I think not so much.

Ted Pinson wrote: That’s actually a really good idea.  I assume this is also why we’re not allowed to serve hot coffee at the gym?

The gym I'm at has hot coffee at 6am every day

Tan B wrote: The gym I'm at has hot coffee at 6am every day

YGD!  What if someone SPILLS IT on themselves?

Tying in to that gear loop would have resulted in the same thing, though I guess if you a belayer, there is one more person to hopefully catch the mistake before someone goes up tied into a gear loop.

I am neither for or against auto-belays.  There are two gyms I go to.  One has them, the other doesn't.  I see the benefits of having them and also see the annoyance of them.

~ Gabe

Is it the assumed lack of experience of someone using an autobelay? The opportunity exists for the same kind of mistake tying in for a TR or lead. Maybe the better solution is to take the biners off the end and make people tie in. At least it would then require that level of competence/knowledge.

It’s only a short step till all non-bouldering is at risk.

Or they should find another insurance company.

Bill Czajkowski wrote: The opportunity exists for the same kind of mistake tying in for a TR or lead. 

For me, as part of learning to climb with a partner was the buddy check. It seems to have utility.

The gym I learned to climb in made you take a written multiple choice test for rules and terminology, then show them you can tie a figure 8 on your own.  Every route only had a toprope, no pre-tied 8's or belay devices hanging.  You had to know how to tie in and set up your belay device . You were taught on an ATC, and could bring your own Gri Gri if you showed them you knew how to use it.  To this day it was the most thorough test I've ever seen at an indoor gym, and it taught you to respect the risk you were taking.

Ted Pinson wrote:

YGD!  What if someone SPILLS IT on themselves?

Have you ever read the details of the lawsuit you keep making fun of?

Would it be frivolous if your grandma got a pot of boiling coffee dumped on her, requiring skin grafts?

I understand what you are saying but the case you're citing is a bad example of that.

Yes.  At a risk of derailing the autobelay thread...

-coffee has to be near boiling in order to brew properly, and every other company that makes coffee makes it this hot (it is literally impossible to make it any hotter).  Also, it was not a “pot,” it was the coffee that she purchased and drove off with.
-she spilled the coffee on herself.  Does this suck?  Yes.  Should she be personally responsible for $20,000 in medical expenses?  No, but neither should McDonald’s.  This highlights a failure in our medical system, not in how McDonald’s prepares its coffee.  I don’t buy the tort reform “greed” narrative, but the accident itself was not the fault of the company.  Getting a full cup of coffee spilled on your lap will ALWAYS suck, regardless of who prepared it.

The bottom line: climbing, and hot coffee, are both inherently dangerous.

We are disrupting natural selection... 

Don't really care for autobelays, but wouldn't be here now if a few local gyms didn't have them.  If I'm by myself now I much prefer bouldering, but when you're just starting out bouldering is really hard and it helped to build strength on autobelay routes.  

My complaint now is that my gym has 2 speed routes with ABs where they could be setting something more interesting.  No one really wants to do speed so the only people on them are tourists flailing around. 

Long Ranger wrote:

For me, as part of learning to climb with a partner was the buddy check. It seems to have utility.

Yes, but that doesn’t mean that the autobelay is more dangerous in regard to that particular failure mechanism. It’s just that having a partner is a mostly effective mitigation for the danger of not tying in correctly; although it is only as good as the quality of your buddy check - I have seen it partially fail, too. Autobelays may need a similar tie-in check to mitigate this risk. They came up with the panels at the autobelay stations to make sure the climber has a reminder to tie-in but it doesn’t check if it was done correctly. If you had to tie a figure eight instead of just clipping in to an autolocker that would require a greater competence/knowledge and may further preclude the possibility of mistakes.

On the other hand, if you’re saying that autobelays are inherently “wrong” because that’s not what you learned in order to be safe then, in my opinion, you’re contributing to the problem in America of making safety decisions for other people which eventually leads to no one being able to do anything involving any risk.

Climbing, in every form, will always have risk.