diet experiments 2

The battle against the unconscious "tummy" intelligence of my appetite always goes to yet another round. I try some new "method" to restrain it, and it works for a while, so seems like I need to try something else.

Be great to hear about other climbers' experiments.

Ken

My old "series 1" concept was "super-fiber": Start with lots of high-fiber foods, then sprinkle on additional pure fiber -- white cellulose powder for insoluble and/or tan psyllium husk powder for soluble fiber. Therefore I would feel full, and not eat too much -- so I would not need to count calories to control weight. But after a few years of that, my weight still went up. Because I just love trying interesting food tastes (even if I already feel full).

From the blog of a smart neurobiologist, I knew what the "next level" had to be, but I kept putting off going there. Finally my weight gain got bad enough, so I decided I had to start my new strategy:
* Stop having a goal of sampling a variety of interesting foods.
* Find foods that do not taste as good to me.
. . . (counter to decades of enjoyable engagement).

So . . . Started purchasing the same kind of crackers all the time, same kind of breakfast cereal.
Sampled three different brands of Soy protein granules, and deliberately choose the one that tasted unappetizing.
Keeping non-calorie sweeteners out of my normal living environment.

Initial result after a couple of months . . .
I did lose weight at first.
Saved time on shopping.

But then the weight loss stopped.
Problem is that my unconscious tummy intelligence just found delight in sampling more subtle forms of variety. And learned to enjoy the taste of foods that had previously seemed less unappetizing.
. . . (The battle continues to another round).

I really wanted to lose more, so I started counting calories.
Limiting Variety does make it easier to count calories (and easier to estimate eating without actually counting).

So I think I'm going to continue this experiment, even if it isn't magical.

What are some other strategies / experiments which climbers are trying?

Ken

Count your calories, and be honest about it.  Eat foods that make you feel good.  Document your progress.

I'd double down on what Mark says above. Keeping an accurate food log was, for better or worse, most of the battle. Maintaining one was a burden at first, but eventually I started to geek out on the extra data; particularly as the weight started to come off. I'd throw in that replacing foods with those that aid in fat loss was helpful too (grapefruit, green tea, etc). Thoughtful carb cycling seems to working well for me, as well. 

Combining the info in this post with your post about body fat measurement being at 7.5% leads me to think that you may have an eating disorder.

Do you know how to cook? Not being rude or facetious here. Learning to cook changed the playing field for me. I stuff myself with huge veggie dishes and have no regrets. Stay away from bread and pasta and alcohol. Oh yeah and candy and sugar and fast food and.... and...

Quote from someone I’ll butcher:

“If you’re having this dilemma it’s because you allow it” if we’re not eating right not training right not abstaining from those vices it’s because we allow that to exist. Maybe it’s more comfortable that way and you need to stop chastising yourself mentally for what you accept to be.

The author of that (maybe from JRE), you don’t allow yourself to commit murder right? Shoot heroine? Stop allowing yourself to eat shit.

The real challenge is to learn to structure your life to make yourself successful, that’s why calorie restriction is so unsuccessful because you’re pitting  yourself against primal nature and in weakness you will fail. Learn to create a world in whichever that which you choose to allow will be successful.

Lena chita wrote:leads me to think that you may have an eating disorder.

Does this disorder have a specific name that I could search on to learn more?

I don't quite follow a diet anymore and I don't believe that specific diets are a fit for everyone. With that being said the primal blueprint is more a way to a healthier life. It takes quite a bit of reading to digest everything he is saying but I think it's great stuff and has been a positive influence in my life.

kenr wrote:

Does this disorder have a specific name that I could search on to learn more?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa

5:2 / Intermittent Fasting diet.

Eat what you normally do/want on most days. Two days a week restrict your calories to 500-800 / day. Easy and potentially beneficial (if you believe the IF claims) way to do this: skip breakfast, maybe lunch, eat a normal dinner twice a week (not adjacent days). This cuts your calories for the week by a significant amount and IF has been shown to be easier to maintain than a daily calorie restricted diet. There are potential benefits at the cellular level from fasting, but who knows yet if there are truly definitive studies showing this.
You also don't have to change what you eat.

I like to call it the "I don't want to eat healthy, so I'm just not gonna eat - diet"

Fruits, vegetables, no sugar or bread....and vodka yes lots of vodka. Good luck!

Kenr, you don't state your age, nor what you currently climb. But, unless you were a kid when you joined in 2010, you are likely at least in your thirties. This is a perfect time to set up habits to enable you to be climbing..... forever. 

Our primary piece of gear for climbing is the body we inhabit at the moment. That body houses a unique individual, and a wonderful, problem solving, brain. All of those need to be treated with respect, if you wish to climb well. It is also all you will have, for the rest of your life.

Preamble to my take on this.

Be realistic.

Strive for healthy. Happy. Sustainable. Getting obsessive over numbers is antithetical to staying healthy, especially in the long run.

Michael Pollan still has the best "diet" advice: Eat real food. Mostly plants. Not too much.

And some chocolate, now and then :-)

Best, Helen

Mikey Wally wrote: a typical breakfast for me would be an eight piece cali roll. lunch would be a couple mcdonalds cheeseburgers (no ketchup mayo or pickles lol calories bro). dinner would be a big piece of plain cheese pizza. maybe i'd have a small piece of jerky and string cheese when i was feeling really low. before bed i would have a couple beers. i didn't eat anything special, i just counted every single calorie.

This highlights the problem that most people have.....focusing on quantity, not quality of foods.  

Matt N wrote: 5:2 / Intermittent Fasting diet.

Eat what you normally do/want on most days. Two days a week restrict your calories to 500-800 / day. Easy and potentially beneficial (if you believe the IF claims) way to do this: skip breakfast, maybe lunch, eat a normal dinner twice a week (not adjacent days). This cuts your calories for the week by a significant amount and IF has been shown to be easier to maintain than a daily calorie restricted diet. There are potential benefits at the cellular level from fasting, but who knows yet if there are truly definitive studies showing this.
You also don't have to change what you eat.

I like to call it the "I don't want to eat healthy, so I'm just not gonna eat - diet"

I do this 3 days a week, lost 25 lbs

Lena chita wrote: Combining the info in this post with your post about body fat measurement being at 7.5% leads me to think that you may have an eating disorder.

+1, what's your goal? If you want to get stronger and climb for a long time you're doing it wrong imo. 

7.5% is competitive bodybuilder territory but they're only hitting that level for a few weeks a year and most of them are on multiple PEDs (and no soy).

I do a 16 hour fast almost every day and make Brian Shaw's Monster Mash when I'm bulking. When I want to cut I do low carb Keto. Either way I'm eating around 1.5 pounds of meat daily and rarely hungry. I think I get down around 7-8% at the lowest and up to 12-14% at the highest. Trying to stay 7% all the time is a recipe for injury and will kill your strength gains.

Matthew Jerousek wrote:Keeping an accurate food log was, for better or worse, most of the battle.

Yes I've concluded that most of the time I'll need to be counting to keep my weight this low to keep getting the obvious benefits for my favorite activities.

Now that I've simplified my eating, I can do it with a simple spreadsheet I made on Google Sheets, instead of some more complicated app. Easy to share between phone + laptop.

Trying to decide if want to add a couple of columns to track protein as well as calories.

Ken

Have you tried special power bars?

Matt N wrote: 5:2 / Intermittent Fasting diet.

Eat what you normally do/want on most days. Two days a week restrict your calories to 500-800 / day. Easy and potentially beneficial (if you believe the IF claims) way to do this: skip breakfast, maybe lunch, eat a normal dinner twice a week (not adjacent days). This cuts your calories for the week by a significant amount and IF has been shown to be easier to maintain than a daily calorie restricted diet. There are potential benefits at the cellular level from fasting, but who knows yet if there are truly definitive studies showing this.
You also don't have to change what you eat.

I like to call it the "I don't want to eat healthy, so I'm just not gonna eat - diet"

I've been doing IF 7 days a week at 16:8 or 18:6 hrs for probably 6-9months now.  dropped 10-15lbs and slowly continue to scrap a little more Body fat off (hovering around 10.9%)  workouts and climbing have all improved.  It ends up being skip breakfast late lunch to early dinner.  yes you can be pretty much what ever you want but healthy clean non-processed is still way more beneficial.  when I go home to see mom and dad i can easily gain 6lbs but it drops right back off in a couple days.   If its breakfast with clients or the kids, have it.  just get back on schedule the next day.  no reason to beat yourself up.  

Eat whole ("real") foods.  Cut out the sugar.  Drink less booze.  To lose weight, burn more calories than you take in.  That's a bit reductionist, I know, but generally that's about as simple an equation as it gets.  I don't personally find that I need to track my eating, but I know that everyone is different.  That being said, everyone's body is different, and everyone reacts to different foods/habits differently.  Find what works for you, and stick to it.  Make sure you are getting 7-9 hours of sleep each night and exercise regularly.  

All the best! 

Matt N wrote: 5:2 / Intermittent Fasting diet.

Interesting that long ago fasting was thought to be a bad idea for long-term weight control because it would start a Starvation response (and so your tummy intelligence would get really careful about fat retention and low metabolism).

But a recent idea is that modern life has too much mental stress while our genetic design needs more physical/bodily stress to maintain optimal fitness. So maybe fasting is "good stress" for general health, apart from whether it "works" long-term for weight control.

(This healthy stress has also been proposed as why Trad climbing is good for mental health).

. . . (myself so far I'm betting on intense exercise sessions as my "good stress").

Ken

I am certainly disordered in my eating....I grew up eating the standard American diet, heavy on the meat and potato's, sugar and salt. It is REALLY hard to reverse the effects that had on my life.

BUT, I was able to lose about 50 pounds by working my ass off in the gym, and when I felt hungry, I just told myself "It is only hunger", and just pushed through it. When I felt myself bonking, I would eat some nuts, jerky, peanut butter or cheese. Just enough to keep me going, not gorging on it.

I found that if I delayed eating meals during the day for as long as possible, like have breakfast at 10, eat lunch at 1, dinner at 8, I would consume much fewer calories. I lost 24 pounds in the first month, just by doing that and quitting beer. I switched to Gin and soda with a lime.

For me the carbs is what makes me gain weight. Beer and sugary baked goods are my nemesis.