Powers SS 5-piece - Where are they?

Red locktite is a very bad idea for a 5 peice in soft rock.

I think you guys would be better off using the 2 3/4 version. The surface rock is harder than the deeper rock. When the rock is real soft use glue ins.

Timothy Fisher wrote: Red locktite is a very bad idea for a 5 peice in soft rock.

I think you guys would be better off using the 2 3/4 version. The surface rock is harder than the deeper rock. When the rock is real soft use glue ins.

Not using locktite.  I disagree about the 2 3/4 version being better.  Yes the outer patina 1/8" is hard, but that's about it.  The longer the bolt distributes the force across more area and provide much greater contact area for the sleeve to anchor.  

I have used vc3 extensively for other uses in the past and I do not think it is the solution you are looking for.

It definitely has an effect on torque, both tightening and loosening. SS fasteners with a healthy coating would break loose with a firm snap vs bare ss... total WAG but maybe 20% increase in force needed to initially break loose.

I also must be missing how this would address the problem you believe to be occurring.. Rock pulverization under the hanger, leading to loss of bolt preload is not going to be addressed by vibratite in the cone.

rkrum wrote: I have used vc3 extensively for other uses in the past and I do not think it is the solution you are looking for.

It definitely has an effect on torque, both tightening and loosening. SS fasteners with a healthy coating would break loose with a firm snap vs bare ss... total WAG but maybe 20% increase in force needed to initially break loose.

I also must be missing how this would address the problem you believe to be occurring.. Rock pulverization under the hanger, leading to loss of bolt preload is not going to be addressed by vibratite in the cone.

It is going to keep the bolt from backing out as quickly, preventing the the bolt from falling out.   Sure, it will be a spinner... but it will provide a longer opportunity to re-torque it before the bolt is on the ground.  

To clarify - Several 1/2 x 4.75" SS powerbolts placed by differing individuals have turned into spinners over the years AND appear to be pulled out of the hole slightly?

Are all the bolts sticking out of the rock a similar amount, approx 1/4-1/2" on average?

Regardless, I maintain my original assertion: If the rock is being pulverized under the hanger and the hanger starts to spin, the bolt will loose preload. Changing the coefficient of friction between the internal bolt and the threads of the cone is not going to change that.

Assuming this is 1/2" hanger 1/2 bolt combo. 3/8 hanger 1/2 bolt I can see having different effects.

rkrum wrote: To clarify - Several 1/2 x 4.75" SS powerbolts placed by differing individuals have turned into spinners over the years AND appear to be pulled out of the hole slightly?

Are all the bolts sticking out of the rock a similar amount, approx 1/4-1/2" on average?

Regardless, I maintain my original assertion: If the rock is being pulverized under the hanger and the hanger starts to spin, the bolt will loose preload. Changing the coefficient of friction between the internal bolt and the threads of the cone is not going to change that.

Assuming this is 1/2" hanger 1/2 bolt combo. 3/8 hanger 1/2 bolt I can see having different effects.

They were placed by differing individuals and are not really spinners.   The cone is set.  But, the bolt has loosened up.  It may be due to some rock breaking down behind the hanger, but I am not sure.  

Use a 1/2" or 13mm hanger and your issues likely will go away, if the scenario is indeed as you describe.

rkrum wrote: Use a 1/2" or 13mm hanger and your issues likely will go away, if the scenario is indeed as you describe.

Have you put a 13mm hanger on a 1/2 power-bolt?  I have and they are loose AF.  I have to ask... are you arm chair qb'ing this one or do you actually have experience with SS power-bolts in soft rock and using the larger diameter hangers?    Can you propose how the larger diameter will reduce the bolt from loosening, especially if the rock breaks down behind it?

Yes. The 1/2 x 4.75 ss powers is my primary bolt when I am climbing SE Utah desert wingate and entrada, both of which are much softer rock than any sandstone I have seen out east. Or anywhere for that matter.

By placing the hanger between the extension sleeve and the bolt, you are tightening the hanger perpendicular to the hole you drilled regardless of angle the hole is drilled at. When the hanger is placed loosely around the sleeve instead (ie 13mm hanger), tightening down the bolt draws the hanger into bearing with the rock. The blue nylon washer will crush with adequate torque if necessary.

If hole isn't drilled perfectly perpendicular to the rock and the hanger placement has not been nicely cleaned, the properly torqued bolt is now levering the hanger slightly unevenly into the sandstone. Sandstone being what it is, it doesn't take much to carve out a trough of pulverized rock under a hanger. Once this happens, because you aren't drawing the hanger into bearing with the rock but instead just the small top edge of the extension sleeve, you are left with inadequate friction to hold the hanger in place and voila, [sorta] spinner.

Just tried to place a fairly large order of SS 1/2 x  4 3/4 Power-bolts with Climbtech.  Apparently on back order.