Eastside/Bishop poor stewardship guide.

- stop crapping all over the buttermilk’s/Happies. They both have bathrooms at the parking area. There is zero reason to not use a toilet 2 minutes away.

- pick up your large amounts of dog poop and if your dog can’t get along with humans or other animals, put him on a leash.

- don’t pad stash for a 5 minute hike (200’ from Stained glass)

- stop camping 5’ away from a sign that clearly says no camping private property. (LA water and near the plant before the chalk bluffs).

- don’t park overnight/ have fires in other areas you aren’t supposed to.

Please pass this list on or if you really need somewhere to camp that is legal on a busy weekend, message me and I can point you in the right direction.

This new group either doesn’t get it or doesn’t give a shit! To busy posting on Social Media, and thinking the rules don’t apply to me. 

Doug18 wrote: This new group either doesn’t get it or doesn’t give a shit! To busy posting on Social Media, and thinking the rules don’t apply to me. 

They seem to really not give a shit. There was a large group a few weeks back that were trying to poach a camp spot on private property. Rolled up and told them they shouldn’t be camping there and if they were, they should totally put out their fire and try to keep it stealth. They basically told me to get f*cked and that I don’t own the property so I shouldn’t care what they do. 

The sad part is my friends found their social media accounts and they are coaches at gyms teaching the new generation. Who with these issues won’t have access to a lot of places after overuse/abuse.

The Farley wrote: I thought about posting around the holidays after seeing many people camping or #vanlifing on LADWP land. Please do not do this. Thanks for calling some of this out- unfortunatly it seems the offenders are fully aware of what they are doing and just do not care. 

I think the next step is to snap photos and publicly shame those that want to do this. Haven’t fully committed to the idea though since it comes with some drawbacks.

PosiDave wrote:

They seem to really not give a shit. There was a large group a few weeks back that were trying to poach a camp spot on private property. Rolled up and told them they shouldn’t be camping there and if they were, they should totally put out their fire and try to keep it stealth. They basically told me to get f*cked and that I don’t own the property so I shouldn’t care what they do. 

The sad part is my friends found their social media accounts and they are coaches at gyms teaching the new generation. Who with these issues won’t have access to a lot of places after overuse/abuse.

Seems like if you know what gym they work for, you could contact them and complain.  Or better yet, have someone from the local climbing advocacy group (assuming there is one) do it to really drive home that they're in the wrong.

you should post their social media, that way one of the perps can come on here and talk about how they practice LNT except for that one time.

Super sad how places like this on the east side are being over used and are not being respected be so called climbers!!! things like this is why I have not been there in years. Last time I bouldered at the chalk bluffs or the buttermilks their was hundreds of people there!!! It's sad to see how the climbing mags the climbing gyms made places like these sooo popular that climbers like me never want to go there again. I know lets of other climbers are still super psyched on places like this which is cool, but for me I stay away from zoos like those places because I want to remember special places like those the way they were, not  a zoo with a bunch of so called climbers running the place amok!!! I think one way to help with these problems is, if the gym's teach their customers outdoor climbing etiquette!!! This kind of bad behavior can shut down climbing areas.Education is key here!!!, but its so sad to see and hear about people disrespecting places like this :-(

I hate to pile on but I've noticed the same shit at the ORG.  The ORG is by far California's best winter sport climbing destination and also happens to be PRIVATELY-OWNED.  It would be incredibly unfortunate (and unfortunately possible) for the ORG to get shut down for users ignoring some pretty simple guidelines.  For example, every time I drive by the central parking area at night, I can see van/camper lights from the parking.  I'm not sure if it's stupidity or ignorance, but I'm guessing it's the former.

Do people in vans/campers think that they aren't "camping"?  There are so many other places to park your van near the Gorge, that aren't in the parking lot...

Danny Herrera wrote: you should post their social media, that way one of the perps can come on here and talk about how they practice LNT except for that one time.

This.

Ryan Pfleger wrote:

This.

I’m away for work right now. But am going to keep start taking photos in hopes this will actually cut down on these issues.

Jaren Watson wrote: PosiDave, I have a suspicion I know the group you’re talking about. If I’m correct, I apologize on behalf of my state.

Jaren, based on your age I assume it wasn’t your Group that I approached. They consisted of Bachelor/Grad age students that were there on break. 

Vanlifers and vliferwannabes seem to have a hard time understanding that 1. They're tourists and take way more than they give to the community, like all tourists 2. They are not covered by a stealth cloak. Everyone sees them and knows they're camping/parking, pooping, damaging roadways and vegetation, letting their dogs run, littering, noise making and lighting up the desert/forest. 3. No one is impressed. That van is the same as any RV.

Yes let's post up photos to document the lack of etiquette, outright violations, and Jerry of the Day. So important to care for these heavily impacted areas. I think about the real inhabitants, the plants animals soils etc.

I for one think that Bishop should go to a system like Hueco. Maybe not as strict but something along those lines. The fields out there are tired AF and they need a lil nap time to recoop.

Post photos. Public shaming is a good place to start.

So glad I don't have to live in CO or CA, all the 'free spirits' and liberals doing as they please. But I fear UT is next...

Hobo Greg wrote:

And what good does that accomplish? Is the goal to scold someone or to actually affect some positive change? I’m no expert but humans don’t ordinarily respond well to being shamed. Take the IG account “Joshuatreehatesyou”. I see them post the conversations they have with people and every single one of them turns out negative, with some people even doubling down on their negative behavior! So is that what we want?

Photo with a simple "don't be that guy endangering access". I see no other solution without some consequences for those abusing our privileged access.

With a public apology delete the photo.

PosiDave wrote: if your dog can’t get along with humans or other animals, put him on a leash.

I would add that even if he/she does get along with humans and other animals, they should still be leashed anytime you can't be actively watching them. It's not others' responsibility to watch your dog, and if you're not watching him/her how are you going to know where they pooped so you can pick it up like a responsible dog owner? Not to mention, if my properly leashed dog has one or more unleashed dogs running up to say hi, even if they're all friendly, that can create a bad situation when the one dog feels trapped.

Hobo Greg wrote:

So please, enough with the “back in my day” mythology.

I agree with you and I cant stand the back in my day mentality but this has nothing to do with BITD, it has to do with right now. BITD there werent hoards of people swarming small areas let alone those special times of year when students have free time. Bishop is a perfect example of too many people in too small of an area with no regulation

The Farley wrote:

Only a matter of time in the Tablelands and Buttermilks IMHO- 

I am amazed that it hasn't happened yet! Maybe when people realize that there ARE boulders in other places than the Happys and Sads, and they start stumbling around where there are indian artifacts

Maureen Maguire wrote: Vanlifers and vliferwannabes seem to have a hard time understanding that 1. They're tourists and take way more than they give to the community, like all tourists 2. They are not covered by a stealth cloak. Everyone sees them and knows they're camping/parking, pooping, damaging roadways and vegetation, letting their dogs run, littering, noise making and lighting up the desert/forest. 3. No one is impressed. That van is the same as any RV.

Yes let's post up photos to document the lack of etiquette, outright violations, and Jerry of the Day. So important to care for these heavily impacted areas. I think about the real inhabitants, the plants animals soils etc.

I live in a van and there are a ton of places in the area that are free and legal to stay while following LNT etiquette. It’s a pretty simple concept and on a weekend, you may have to drive 10-45 minutes to a spot. People simply just use the resources they feel entitled to and cant take 15-60 minutes to clean up their mess and the mess of others.

I'm not a fan of the Hueco Tanks quote and guide/chaperone system, but if that is what it takes to keep the desecrators from irreparably damaging the Buttermilks and the Happies so be it. Limit their numbers and assign a babysitter to monitor their behavior.