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Eastside/Bishop poor stewardship guide.


brian burke · · santa monica, ca · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 145

avoiding climbing in the milks or the tablelands after rain seems completely legit.  there is some fragile rock around those parts...  its not like we're talking about avoiding climbing splitter cracks on yosemite granite after rain, which would certainly seem a little excessive.

Andrew Child · · Corvallis, Or · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 711
David S wrote: Can we correllate when that hold broke against the recent precipitation history there?

Someone posted on mountain project that the hold was broken on 11/27/18. According to weather underground's historical data the only time that it rained in Bishop in the entire month of November was the 29th.


I don't think this is necessary evidence that it's ok to climb non sedintary rock after rain, but for the record I don't think that rain significantly weakens these rock types.
Jeffrey Constine · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 658

Blame the GYMS.

sDawg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 0

A dog ban can easily include emotional support animals. Boulder fields are not usually ADA accessible. Moreover a service animal is a distinct category and by definition a well trained animal. They can be allowed by permit without allowing emotional support animals. 

O · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65
Competent Leader wrote:

You east side boys are soft, they try that down at woodson and well i don't have to tell you how that would turn out nawmean? locals only or something similar.

Are Woodson locals really as douche as their Surfer counterparts in cali? To be honest California is full of softies.

But Everything west of the Sierras are where the issues actually exist.....
Prana pulled that post and the photographer was actually cool about it when I reached out and seemed clueless on issues but was open to what the common “ethics” were.
Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 1,796

A few years ago Patagonia posted a picture of a camp fire at the buttermilk’s on instagram. I called them out on it but they never replied. Just checked again and it looks like they pulled the pic. 

C J · · Sac Valley, CA · Joined Jun 2017 · Points: 0
Jaren Watson wrote:
Got the same message.  At least they bothered to use our actual names in their stock response.  


Josh C · · Somewhere out West · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,120

Whatever happened to people having an environmental ethic? LNT people: Learn it and practice it.
Maybe students should be required to take a course in LNT during high school.

Josh C · · Somewhere out West · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,120
David S wrote: Prana's not doing so well lately.  Here they are in another LNT disaster...:

https://www.outsideonline.com/prana-chris-sharma-catalogue-controversy

Reminds me of when Dean Potter scaled Delicate Arch in Utah with a photog in tow hired by Patagonia. Of course Prana "deeply regrets the decision" because they may have lost money over it. Tsk tsk.

Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 1,796
Josh Cameron wrote:

Reminds me of when Dean Potter scaled Delicate Arch in Utah with a photog in tow hired by Patagonia. Of course Prana "deeply regrets the decision" because they may have lost money over it. Tsk tsk.

Have you seen the video of Dean talking about it. It’s crazy how angry people got at him. Best quote was something like “I think all rocks are sacred and special, people are mad because this is rock is on their license plates.”

Harumpfster Boondoggle · · Between yesterday and today. · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 138
Tristan Burnham wrote:

Have you seen the video of Dean talking about it. It’s crazy how angry people got at him. Best quote was something like “I think all rocks are sacred and special, people are mad because this is rock is on their license plates.”

He was wrong. People were angry because in his Narcissism it was ok for him to trespass but not others.

Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 1,796
Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

He was wrong. People were angry because in his Narcissism it was ok for him to trespass but not others.

Not trespassing. It wasn’t illegal when he did it.  

Josh C · · Somewhere out West · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,120
Tristan Burnham wrote:

Not trespassing. It wasn’t illegal when he did it.  

According to Arches National Park: "It is prohibited to climb, scramble or walk upon, wrap webbing or rope around, or rappel off any named or unnamed arch with an opening greater than three feet." nps.gov/arch/planyourvisit/rockclimbing.htm. This regulation was in place when Dean did his publicity stunt. He also broke federal regulations when he went wing suiting in Yosemite. It's this mentality of "the rules don't apply to me" which gives outdoor users a bad name. In Dean's case it was narcissism, as Boondoggle points out. In the case of the Buttermilk's, hopefully it's just a matter of ignorance and lacking information on proper LNT principles.

BAd · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 95

I was at the Bishop Area Climbers Coalition meeting.  I think it's a great start and will help us deal with these impact issues.  I, for one, besides not being a boulderer anyway, avoid the Milks on weekends and during peak vacation periods.  It is a total zoo with dozens of vehicles--I think I estimated over 50 once.  Lost count.  I am totally willing to do stewardship at these areas.  I've often picked up trash, used TP, even a dumped television once out near the Whitney Cave at the Alabama Hills, another area that is now being loved to death, although in that area is more impacted by general campers/boondockers than climbers compared to the areas being discussed here.  Besides general population growth in Cali, which is extreme, the social media/networking technology has really fueled these problems.  The people and the technology aren't going away, so we need to be proactive and not merely rant and rave on forums.  When you go to an area, pick up trash, do what you can to educate people, SHOW people the way by your actions.  It think it all helps.  

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60
BAd wrote: Besides general population growth in Cali, which is extreme, the social media/networking technology has really fueled these problems.  The people and the technology aren't going away, so we need to be proactive and not merely rant and rave on forums.    

Great things often have modest beginnings.  Let's hope the coalition will be a step in the right direction.  

Social media is great (though, as a dude in my 50s I don't enjoy it nearly as much as my teenager) but it has really negatively impacted some areas that were really little known outside of the community of climbers.  I think of what they call Potato Chip Rock at Mt. Woodson.  Before social media, it was just a funky flake that you gawked at.  Now nonclimbers trudge up there routinely just to stand in line (someone posted that they waited for an hour (!)) just to be able to take a picture and post it on Facebook or Instagram.  The Milks are crazy enough with just climbers.  Let's hope the general public doesn't find a sudden attraction for the place.   

BAd · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 95

True that, Fat Dad.

O · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65
BAd wrote: I was at the Bishop Area Climbers Coalition meeting.  I think it's a great start and will help us deal with these impact issues.  I, for one, besides not being a boulderer anyway, avoid the Milks on weekends and during peak vacation periods.  It is a total zoo with dozens of vehicles--I think I estimated over 50 once.  Lost count.  I am totally willing to do stewardship at these areas.  I've often picked up trash, used TP, even a dumped television once out near the Whitney Cave at the Alabama Hills, another area that is now being loved to death, although in that area is more impacted by general campers/boondockers than climbers compared to the areas being discussed here.  Besides general population growth in Cali, which is extreme, the social media/networking technology has really fueled these problems.  The people and the technology aren't going away, so we need to be proactive and not merely rant and rave on forums.  When you go to an area, pick up trash, do what you can to educate people, SHOW people the way by your actions.  It think it all helps.  

How was the turnout for the Coalition? Ended up going to work sooner than planned so couldn’t attend. 

BAd · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 95

It was good, Posi, basically packed--about 75 people.  Bob Harrington gave a quick history of water in the ORG, and other members of the panel, which included Peter Croft, Marty Lewis, and Tai Devore, talked about the issues in the ORG.  The good news was that the workers for the DWP are really cool with the climbers.  They are kinda stoked to have us as a user group, it would seem.  We have to be very respectful of their operations and follow all closures--like stay away from yellow warning tape, etc--but they've got no problems with us.  There does seem to be a way forward re. good bridges, etc, but I suspect that will move with glacial speed.  Still, no climbing restrictions of any kind except around marked off work areas--I think there's one off-limits crag near the central power station right now.  One woman who's lived in the area from the 70's tried to make the case that climbers were somehow uniquely guilty of lowering the quality of life, but Marty pointed out that we are hardly the only user group in the area--and maybe not even the biggest.  Regardless, we live in one of the best areas in the world for this sport, and, like it or not, the place is on the map.  The woman made some sort of nonsensical comment about how people have "lived in the Gorge for 25 years" and now the climbers have chased away all the animals.  Huh?!  The place was a dead zone until water releases started in the early '90's.  She also likened climbers' dispersed camping to setting up a corral anywhere she wanted.  Analogy fail, but she did voice a local's concern, and I get it.  We have to do extreme leave-no-trace camping.  I hope we can educate enough people to make a difference.

C J · · Sac Valley, CA · Joined Jun 2017 · Points: 0
BAd wrote: It was good, Posi, basically packed--about 75 people.  Bob Harrington gave a quick history of water in the ORG, and other members of the panel, which included Peter Croft, Marty Lewis, and Tai Devore, talked about the issues in the ORG.  The good news was that the workers for the DWP are really cool with the climbers.  They are kinda stoked to have us as a user group, it would seem.  We have to be very respectful of their operations and follow all closures--like stay away from yellow warning tape, etc--but they've got no problems with us.  There does seem to be a way forward re. good bridges, etc, but I suspect that will move with glacial speed.  Still, no climbing restrictions of any kind except around marked off work areas--I think there's one off-limits crag near the central power station right now.  One woman who's lived in the area from the 70's tried to make the case that climbers were somehow uniquely guilty of lowering the quality of life, but Marty pointed out that we are hardly the only user group in the area--and maybe not even the biggest.  Regardless, we live in one of the best areas in the world for this sport, and, like it or not, the place is on the map.  The woman made some sort of nonsensical comment about how people have "lived in the Gorge for 25 years" and now the climbers have chased away all the animals.  Huh?!  The place was a dead zone until water releases started in the early '90's.  She also likened climbers' dispersed camping to setting up a corral anywhere she wanted.  Analogy fail, but she did voice a local's concern, and I get it.  We have to do extreme leave-no-trace camping.  I hope we can educate enough people to make a difference.

She sounds like a real treat!

Karl Walters · · Oakland, CA · Joined May 2017 · Points: 20

What might be helpful is to potentially highlight names of legal areas. I've just zoomed in on Google Maps to find several legal BLM areas/sites and don't mind driving from them to whatever crag for the day, but apparently this is way too hard for most people to do it and the options are:

1. Do it for them and make it public.
2. Let them continue to fuck it up.

Social media shaming won't do much. The likelihood of them getting caught again is probably low enough to not deter them or they can just simply go to whatever other spot they think is legal, get yelled at on SM again and give up trying. People are lazy like that.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern California
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