New and experienced climbers over 50 #4

dragons wrote: Here's what I did today - went snowshoeing.

If you're climbing outdoors this time of the year, you are so lucky! I've been trying to convince my partner, Bill, to make a trip to Joshua Tree this winter. However, we both have some doubts. Neither of us are highly skilled, and we're concerned about how many routes we'd be able to get on. Obviously this would be less of a problem if we lived nearby, but we actually live in the Whites (NH). A trip to JT would be time-consuming and costly. The government shutdown complicates things.

Hey dragons. I can only speak to J Tree having just come back from two weeks there.

I was really fearful of climbing there now, in the winter.  I worried my hands and feet would freeze and I’d just be miserable.
None of that happened but the REASON it didn’t happen was because we carefully picked our spots. It really was kind of cheating.  One day it was 19 degrees and just howling wind but we were in a full sun place completely protected. (The Solarium, I believe) Every day we found another hidden and protected spot that felt warm and perfect with dozens of great routes. 
I’ve had the same incredible luck there in the blazing heat of summer because J Tree natives know all the shady rocks and cool climbing areas.  We climbed when it was 107 everywhere else, but a breezy 80 where we were. (Parts of Hemingway, for instance). Never broke a sweat. 
I also drive 600 miles and so yes, it’s a big commitment. I understand your reticence. 
As for government shut down...perhaps things will change if this goes on, but as of yesterday the park was open (no camping), pristine, just like always. Lots of community volunteerism, committed climbers and hikers have kept it open and happy. No trash. Gates all open. 
That’s the lowdown for J Tree. Can’t speak for Red Rocks. 

Dragons, +1 on RR, but Smith Rock State Park near Redmond, OR is another place chock full of fun moderates. It's not quite as travel friendly as Red Rock near Las Vegas, but worthy of a long trip.

Jeffrey, we rely on MP and guide books to a great extent.  Practically every place we go to climb is a new area for us.  What I have found is that areas that have an active climbing community tend to have better beta, some have even been updated with GPS coordinates.  Some of the best was photo copied drawings from local climbers that the climbing supply stores hand out.  

So yes we have found some interesting discrepancies but overall I think MP and published guide books are pretty accurate.  When in doubt we take the 80m rope.

Billabong with The Flake next to it. And crap...looks like a third rope. Senor’s theory may win the day.    How about until I get better at this you guys deal with the ropes, I’ll work on climbing it. It was just beautiful elegant footwork. Made my heart flutter. 

John Barritt wrote:

Does that include the route and area info you've added or just everything else?..... ;)

 Like I said it’s all subject to Using your own judgment 

Lori, were there people there toproping that climb to the left of Billabong? It's really common in JT to see guides or other groups set up topropes in such a way that the rope goes up one route, over a bit and down another, adjacent route. That way you get two routes worth of TRing out of one rope just by switching what end the belayer and climber start on. And you often get to annoy your neighbors! It looks to me like that is the arrangement with the rope to the left. 

Señor Arroz wrote: Lori, were there people there toproping that climb to the left of Billabong? It's really common in JT to see guides or other groups set up topropes in such a way that the rope goes up one route, over a bit and down another, adjacent route. That way you get two routes worth of TRing out of one rope just by switching what end the belayer and climber start on. And you often get to annoy your neighbors! It looks to me like that is the arrangement with the rope to the left. 

There were a surprising lot of people on that rock.  I had never seen that before.  Someone was leading The Flake.  Several guys were working hard on a roof at the very top of Intersection. (don't know the name).  Then the two guys I was watching... the first led up Billabong, rapped down, the second led up to the left, looked like there were no bolts and he was precarious, he backstepped and traversed right so he could finish the route.  There were other ropes besides the three.  

But back to the point... isn't it a lovely route to aspire to?     I don't know how physically strong I can get this year... will be working on that at the gym.   But the delicacy and balance of this climb is a different kind of skill... I think in time I can do that.

EDIT: Aaaand the word from you-know-who is "Billabong is 2 pitches, approx. 160 or 170 feet (it traverses around a bit)"

Lori Milas wrote: But back to the point... isn't it a lovely route to aspire to?     I don't know how physically strong I can get this year... will be working on that at the gym.   But the delicacy and balance of this climb is a different kind of skill... I think in time I can do that.

EDIT: Aaaand the word from you-know-who is "Billabong is 2 pitches, approx. 160 or 170 feet (it traverses around a bit)"

5.10 Slab????Heck yeah!!!

John Barritt wrote:

5.10 Slab????Heck yeah!!!

I don't know how everyone else is with this... but for me, it's a big jump from a 10a-b (where I am) to a c-d (Billabong and others).  Kind of like a bra size, come to think of it.     Every little letter counts. 

1. Many many better routes than billabong in the grading it is an average Climb nothing special only a few moves out right at the second bolt many many better routes than billabong in the grading, typical better routes are “where have all the cowboys gone” put up by Bob Gains or physical graffiti or Space mountain/ surfaceTension/ official route  of the 1984 Olympics/The Green Room/ Black  President and others.

ErikaNW, rgold, Señor Arroz - thx for the alternate Red Rock recommendation. I certainly want to visit Red Rock one day. It looks super nice. We've only got about a week for our potential trip. I've been concerned about the wet rock thing at Red Rock. What are the chances you fly out there, it rains, and half your vacation is spent waiting for the rock to dry out? That kind of stops me. If I were to plan on Red Rock, I think I'd want more than a week to mitigate risk.

Is there anyone reading this who is in the NE US and done a winter trip of 1 week? Was it worth the time/expense? I'd prefer to do 2 or more weeks, just not sure that it's possible.

Lori, I've been following your experience with some interest. JT sounds really nice for a winter climbing trip.

Dallas R, Smith is one of those places I want to go "some day", but I never really thought about it as a winter destination. I'd be interested to hear more about your experience there. BTW, what you and your wife are doing sounds awesome! I hope my partner and I can do a climbing road trip one of these years.

FTR, both my partner and I have more trad experience than sport, but neither one of us is expert at anything. We prefer trad, esp multi-pitch trad. However, this time of year, I'd take whatever kind of natural rock I can get.

Just taking a few minutes to run through pictures from an actual camera, not my iPhone.  The first one I call 'the move' on Sexy Grandma... which is I believe how it is supposed to be done...I may not have done quite like this.    The second one is of the poor little thing who couldn't figure out what to do with the crack.  I feel so much better, knowing I'm not the only one who struggles.  EDIT: For the heck of it, I'll post "the next move".  I think these are kinda beautiful.  I can still hear Bob yelling "Lori, it's not a saddle.  Stand up!" (This guy's riding it, too!) 

 

Dragons.... you might wish to look at Cochise Strong Hold. East or West.... can’t guess at the weather but the climbing is really awesome, fabulous free wide open camping and the granite requires no time to dry out. I recommend you go before the Feds take over and ruin the place, like they have done to RR and Josh.
Or Mt. Lemon...   Fly to Tucson if weather sucks stay in motel. The sun comes out and your golden.
Have fun

dragons wrote: ErikaNW, rgold, Señor Arroz - thx for the alternate Red Rock recommendation. I certainly want to visit Red Rock one day. It looks super nice. We've only got about a week for our potential trip. I've been concerned about the wet rock thing at Red Rock. What are the chances you fly out there, it rains, and half your vacation is spent waiting for the rock to dry out? That kind of stops me. If I were to plan on Red Rock, I think I'd want more than a week to mitigate risk.

Is there anyone reading this who is in the NE US and done a winter trip of 1 week? Was it worth the time/expense? I'd prefer to do 2 or more weeks, just not sure that it's possible.

Lori, I've been following your experience with some interest. JT sounds really nice for a winter climbing trip.

Dallas R, Smith is one of those places I want to go "some day", but I never really thought about it as a winter destination. I'd be interested to hear more about your experience there. BTW, what you and your wife are doing sounds awesome! I hope my partner and I can do a climbing road trip one of these years.

FTR, both my partner and I have more trad experience than sport, but neither one of us is expert at anything. We prefer trad, esp multi-pitch trad. However, this time of year, I'd take whatever kind of natural rock I can get.

Weather is always uncertain for sure. There are alternatives in the Vegas area (limestone) if it does rain. I have done short trips there (4 days with 3 long days of climbing) and avoided rain (March and May). If it were to rain, and you were there for a week, you aren't that far from driving to J Tree. The hiking is also incredible.

I just got back from a week in the Tucson area - that might be a good option for you too. We found some great moderate crags on Mt. Lemmon (both trad and sport) and also in Cochise Stronghold. We had dogs with us so were limited to single pitch, but there are amazing multi-pitch options in the Stronghold and some really nice moderates. Funny, we only climbed sport routes there (one really doesn't go to Cochise for single pitch sport, but that's what we ended up doing), so I can't speak to the gear. We also had a local with us which probably tripled our pitch count - it would have taken us forever to find some of these places.

J Tree is wonderful, and certainly worth a trip. Go with the expectation of climbing easier grades than you are used to. It can be VERY cold and windy in the winter - but you can seek out sheltered and sunny crags.

Honestly, a trip to Colorado in the winter would get you some good climbing - it is rare that we can't get out in the South Platte for granite or Shelf Road for limestone during the winter. But again, no guarantee on the weather.

EDIT to add: what Guy said!!

Lori...in case you didn't notice this.  https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/111881300/type-1-diabetic-mountaineers

rgold wrote: Lori...in case you didn't notice this.  https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/111881300/type-1-diabetic-mountaineers

Thank you so much, Rgold.  I hadn’t seen this. 

If I want to feel sorry for myself it could be over this.  There is still so much that is off limits while I learn to climb safely.  It could also explain some of my shyness in climbing with friends. I gotta say no to so much and not because I can’t climb it! 
These two weeks in J Tree were full of hard climbing, but I had to listen to Bob. Single pitch top rope “until you can guarantee you’ll never have an issue with your blood sugar.” (But he reminds me there’s 8000 such climbs).  I have better control than anyone I know but good isn’t good enough.
Just an incredibly challenging layer to add to an incredibly challenging sport.  Thanks for the link...I’ll check in and say hello!

Dragons, I think you just need to take the next year off and go climb, there are so many places to go and so much to do.  RR and Smith are good, although, like eastern CO Smith can get chilly. Cochise Stronghold is wonderfully remote, we were just starting out so only TR'd the peanut.  

A friend of ours that travels the world and climbs is trying to get us to go to El Potrero Chico, Mexico.  He says it's great climbing and friendly natives.  We'll leave the RV on US side and stay at the hostel, planning on Nov 2019, we'll see.

For an easy travel trip Enchanted Rock, Reimers Ranch near Austin, TX are not terrible destinations.  No big epic multi-pitch, but an easy place to get to and lots of decent climbs.

So it's Saturday, skied yesterday and the Christmas crowd has pretty much stripped the snow and we have lost of rocks, so decided not to ski today, crowd and rocks, bad combo. So what to do? Not really enough snow for snow shoeing, little chilly for hiking and biking, well what the heck, lets go to the gym, how bad can it be?

It was amazing, every 5.5-5.10a had someone on it, you had to stand in line to get on a route.  There was no worry about encroaching on another route, every route had someone on it. It was nice to see folks being polite when the routes overlapped, they would either hang and wait for the intersection to clear, or recognizing the person next to them was the faster climber would signal them to proceed ahead.  Everybody kept a tight TR so there was no falling on the person below.  

While standing in line for my nemesis I had a great conversation with some older climbers who have never climbed outdoors, that was interesting.  They too were bailing on the second to the last hold. It took longer than we usually spend in the gym to reach point of failure, we had to wait for routes.  

Another thing that was amazing were the number of families with kids there.  A little girl of about 9 scampered up nemesis like it was just a fun romp.  Gotta love the climbing community, it's so much fun.  

My gym was really crowded today, too. I think it's New Year's resolutions and people who got gift certificates. 

Señor Arroz wrote: My gym was really crowded today, too. I think it's New Year's resolutions and people who got gift certificates. 

Should have come to Tick today was nice

Jeffrey Constine wrote:

Should have come to Tick today was nice

Yeah, but the yoga class at Tick Rock isn't as good as the one I was going to at Sender One. Otherwise you are totally right.

dragons wrote: ErikaNW, rgold, Señor Arroz - thx for the alternate Red Rock recommendation. I certainly want to visit Red Rock one day. It looks super nice. We've only got about a week for our potential trip. I've been concerned about the wet rock thing at Red Rock. What are the chances you fly out there, it rains, and half your vacation is spent waiting for the rock to dry out? That kind of stops me. If I were to plan on Red Rock, I think I'd want more than a week to mitigate risk.

Any place you go, there is a risk of weather stopping your from climbing.  I'm not at all sure any one of the options is significantly better than another.

Is there anyone reading this who is in the NE US and done a winter trip of 1 week? Was it worth the time/expense? I'd prefer to do 2 or more weeks, just not sure that it's possible.

I'm from NY state, and I've done two one-week trips and one 10 day trip to Red Rocks.  All were well worth it for me, but all had some non-climbing days due to weather. If you are doing long(ish) climbs, you probably can't keep up a climb every day schedule anyway.
.

...We prefer trad, esp multi-pitch trad.

Well, you are far better off at Red Rocks for that.  And maybe this is just me, but spending a bundle and going 3/4 way across the country for a week of one-pitch climbs doesn't motivate me much, as I have plenty of 1-2 pitch climbs 40 minutes from my house.

One of the things I like about Red Rocks/Vegas is the non-climbing day opportunities.  Bryce Canyon is 4 hrs away, Zion is 2.5 hours away, Death Valley is 2 hrs away, Joshua Tree is 3 hrs away, plus there's a host of good hiking around Vegas itself.  

Red Rocks in bad weather can still be wonderful.  For instance,

One of the best parts of a climbing trip to RR I had a while back was a rainy day we used to go to Death Valley when it was having a spectacular Spring bloom.



I've never experienced multiday bad weather at Red Rocks, although I guess that can happen too.  But it seems to me that if you go prepared to climb but also to enjoy all the other things the outdoors have to offer, your trip can't possibly be a bust.