Seattle vs. Bay Area

If you're willing to switch up disciplines, climb solo, watch the weather like a hawk, take advantage of 2 hour weather Windows, and drive for 2-3 hours.. You can climb at LEAST 1 day a week all year round. At least I do.

It was bone dry at Erie Monday and Tuesday. Same for all the desert crags. Yeah a lot of the climbing sucks, but it keeps you in the right headspace for when backcountry rock season rolls around in mid April. 

Kyle Elliott wrote: If you're willing to switch up disciplines, climb solo, watch the weather like a hawk, take advantage of 2 hour weather Windows, and drive for 2-3 hours.. You can climb at LEAST 1 day a week all year round. At least I do.

Or, he could just stay in the bay area, drive 2-5hrs,  and climb ~ every day of the year...

mpech wrote:

Or, he could just stay in the bay area, drive 2-5hrs,  and climb ~ every day of the year...

I'd be happier if a lot more people WOULD stay there asses put and not move here. My 16 mile commute takes almost an hour at 6 a.m.

Kyle Elliott wrote:

I'd be happier if a lot more people WOULD stay there asses put and not move here. My 16 mile commute takes almost an hour at 6 a.m.

That and housing costs are what really pushed us away. Miss my friends and the landscapes dearly, but absolutely nothing else. But I am a bit behind on my podcasts now with my 3 minute commute... 

If you like city living, Seattle is great. The city itself has small neighborhoods with very unique vibes and everything in each neighborhood is generally walkable. Streets are indeed narrow, and the homeless downtown gets pretty ridiculous as Slim says. If you don't mind the gray, I have yet to see another city with a more beautiful setting. Mountains on all sides, water, forest, green, hipsters. Its perfect.

It's expensive cost of living, sure, but so are most cities. If you're living out in the burbs prepare for a commute.

Definitely take a visit for a week and get a feel. I think the biggest decision for you is going to be the City itself, and not the climbing. In my experience, when people move to Seattle they either move away in 6 months or they stay for good. I think you're either into it, or you're not, and you know pretty quick.

slim wrote: i think blake is exagerating - it's more like 8 or 9 months.  usually i agree with JCM's sage wisdom, but i think he is on drugs in this case.

let me put it this way.  i bought ( and have been using) a pair of f___cking snowshoes the last few weeks. i have no idea when i will climb outside again.

if somebody would have told me a few years ago that in the near future i would be spending my weekends mindlessly snowshoeing in the fog i would have lit them on fire and beat that fire out with a shovel.

you havent mentioned other aspects of your life.  are you single? being a single guy in seattle would really suck. as in really really suck.  the tooth to tattoo ratio is way suboptimal here.  also, seattle is way more filthy, feels way more claustrophobic, and has the worst mannered people i have seen anywhere.  you know the old saying about rats eating themselves? .... exactly....

i would really seriously contemplate your situation here.

If you actually wanted to climb outdoors, there are several crags with steep rock that have been dry as recently as last week. Either you're lazy, or you can't climb hard enough to enjoy our more challenging spurt climbing areas.

Seattle is a crowded steaming pile.  I guess if you're a huge fan of 40°F and rain then it's tolerable...

One thing Seattle(ites) has dialed in is invading every known livable spot in WA. 

And what you going to do when this happens?

​The Big One​​​

Jplotz wrote: Seattle is a crowded steaming pile.  I guess if you're a huge fan of 40°F and rain then it's tolerable...

One thing Seattle(ites) has dialed in is invading every known livable spot in WA.

And what you going to do when this happens?

The Big One

I was waiting for someone to mention that. Call me paranoid, but that's one of the things keeping me from moving back to the Northern CA coast, ha.

There is a reason REI started in Seattle and many great Mountaineers have come out of the PNW. I am from L.A. and up until I moved to Bishop About 6 years ago I would spend a lot of my winters in Washington, it's a great place in the winter. just not for everyone.

JCM wrote:

I found slim's comment about tech bro's in Seattle amusing. Not because there aren't tons of annoying tech bros in Seattle (there are), but because this is a "Seattle vs Bay Area" thread. Tech is here, and it causes the expected issues, but it is in general a slightly milder version of the tech culture/impacts observed in much of the Bay Area.

Regarding slim's other comments: My understanding is that he moved here from the Front Range, has been unable to adjust his expectations accordingly, and as a result is very unhappy. It is true that Seattle is a substantially worse place to be a climber than the Front Range. If you need Front Range proximity to climbing (and weather) to be happy, Seattle will be a problem. But (IMO) the Bay Area is even worse. If you are already adapted to the Bay Area BS (cost of living, techies, traffic, distance to climbing), Seattle may seem pretty OK. As I mentioned above, comparing the two really comes down to a question of climbing proximity vs. weather.

Lastly, since you mentioned training dungeons (and I recognize your name from r/climbharder): The training space situation in Seattle gyms has gotten pretty good in recent years. Specifically, Seattle Bouldering Project built a few years ago a large, nice basement training area, with 3 large spray walls (at 15*, 30*, 45*), Moon Board, 2 tread walls (usually 1 is functional at any given time), good hangboard collection and campus board, expanded weight room, etc. The rest of the gym is kind of a junk show (crowded; comp-style setting; generally useless for training), but you can easily hide in the basement training area to avoid all that. It is a really good training setup for a large commercial gym.

The new bouldering gym in town (Momentum) also has a training area of similar quality. 2 large spray walls (I think ~25*, 40*), adjustable angle Tension Board, good hangboard collection and campus board, nice weight room. Also a good option. Noting this since I have been unimpressed by the training-room options at the Bay Area Touchstone gyms I've been to.

I’ll be back in Seattle on Thursday and was going to check out some gyms. I’ve been to SBP and work is downtown, where else would you recommend? My wife will be with me on the weekend and generally uses normal problems.

SBP was cool for sure. The setting was weird. I don’t climb gym V8 and flashed a V8-V10 circuit yet some of the 5’s felt super tough. The rest of the facility was rad.

Check out Momentum. Nice new bouldering gym with typical (and fairly good) commercial setting. Plus a good training zone (tension board). Hasn't gotten crowded yet.  Reasonably accessible from downtown. Lots of parking (a nice difference from the other gyms in town). I switched over there this fall and like it a lot; my only complaint is the mats are too hard. They keep the gym quite cold (this is a good thing), but bring a sweater.

SBP setting is definitely weird. And the color-circuit grading system is so variable that it is nearly useless. But the comp-style problems can still be pretty fun, and the downstairs training area is great.

Vertical World is currently the main roped climbing gym in town, if that is of interest to you. The roped climbing is good (but often extremely busy). The bouldering and training space is a lot more limited.

Stone Gardens (in Ballard) is an older gym, mostly bouldering, some short roped climbing. It is farther from downtown, but would be a good location if you end up living in/near Ballard. The Stone Gardens in Bellevue is a larger and better gym with arguably the best indoor bouldering in the area, but it is too far away (and too much traffic to get there) to visit on a regular weekday basis if you live in Seattle proper.

Traffic here is enough of a problem that you will generally choose where you gym climb (or do anything else for that matter) based on avoiding excess travel distance or traffic from where you work/live.

MorganH wrote:

If you actually wanted to climb outdoors, there are several crags with steep rock that have been dry as recently as last week. Either you're lazy, or you can't climb hard enough to enjoy our more challenging spurt climbing areas.

that, or i had surgery on both shoulders a few weeks ago ....  :(

we met about 10 or 15 years ago, i thought i remembered you being more friendly than that :)

also, i have climbed at some the more challenging sport climbing areas.  it's ok, but definitely gloomy.  i think the alpine climbing up here is a lot better than the sport climbing, so i have kind of switched over to that a bit more.

Karl Walters wrote:

I’ll be back in Seattle on Thursday and was going to check out some gyms. I’ve been to SBP and work is downtown, where else would you recommend? My wife will be with me on the weekend and generally uses normal problems.

SBP was cool for sure. The setting was weird. I don’t climb gym V8 and flashed a V8-V10 circuit yet some of the 5’s felt super tough. The rest of the facility was rad.

SBP the setting is definitely really weird.  my friends 12 year old, who hasn't climbed for over a year, flashed a purple the other day.  this is by far the closest to my house, but i haven't been there in a really long time.  i think they would improve greatly by using a V system instead of colors.

momentum - haven't been, but a guy i work with says it is pretty good.  he also says the mats are really hard.

VW interbay is a pretty good gym.  definitely old style, but the setting is pretty good.  it is only a couple miles from my office as the crow flies, but literally a 30 to 45 minute drive after work.

i was really hoping that momentum would be making headway on the roped gym near SBP, but it sounds like it isn't going very well.

Man this thread has got me excited.... to suffer.  Moving to the Seattle from Vegas.

Fuck me

Rob the tricam wrote: Man this thread has got me excited.... to suffer.  Moving to the Seattle from Vegas.

Fuck me

i see snowshoeing in your future. whatever you do, don't move here at the beginning of the nice season, it will only make the following winter that much more brutal  :)

slim wrote:

i was really hoping that momentum would be making headway on the roped gym near SBP, but it sounds like it isn't going very well.

Sorry for the thread drift, but what have you heard on that front? I've also heard rumor that the Momentum roped gym is on hold, but no confirmation or details. You have any extra info?

Roped indoor training isn’t really that productive unless you really need to work your head game and clipping. You can use bouldering circuits and walls to ARC or work PE, so for me I care mostly about the stuff I’d use 90% of the time. It seems most trainers feel this way at least. It’s nice to have but if what people are saying about outdoor sport access is true it shouldn’t be hard to get that outside.

slim wrote:

the problem is the rest of the year, which is a solid 8 or 9 months.  man, i am really impressed that JCM can stick to the grind of training all winter long here.  my first 9 months here i worked 7 days a week the entire time.  there were literally 5 or 6 days that i had off (and almost all of those days it was raining everywhere, despite them being during the "dry" months).  it was rough.  once work calmed down, i tried to get in the swing of things but i just found it completely de-motivating to train all winter with literally zero days getting out climbing.  i went another 4 months without climbing outside at all.  training started to feel un-appealing (which is really unusual for me, i have always really enjoyed training).  i just feel like i am treading water while holding a brick above my head, for months at a time.  contrast this to living in the rocky mountain west or other locations where you can climb hard every weekend year round.  it is definitely a major transition.

Looping back to this topic- I guess I just don't see it that way, in terms of a supposed 8-9 month off-season. Here's how the season shapes up for me:

My main performance months for sport climbing near Seattle are April-May (plus early June), and Sept-Oct. During July-August it is too hot for hard climbing locally, so I ease back on the hard sport climbing. This is a nice time to go to Squamish or up in the Cascades for long trad routes. Taking a bit of a break mid-summer means high motivation again to try hard when it cools down in September. A bit of mid-summer strength/power work is a good idea too.

While it is true that Spring/Fall, especially April and October, can be wet, choosing projects on overhanging, always-dry walls lets you work around this. For the boulderers, the availability of much-drier weather in Leavenworth (and the need for cold temperatures on the granite) pushes the performance season to include some of March and November as well. Sport climbers can utilize some of March/November by taking Smith trips (or Vantage for mid-grade climbers with low quality standards). While IMO Smith is too far for a 2-day weekend trip, this is a good time to use some vacation time and get in a 4-5 day long weekend.

So it is more like a 4-month off season for me, mid-November to mid-March (side note: this is a lot less than 8-9 months). The really key thing during winter, speaking of using vacation time, is to save up your vacation time for a mid-winter climbing trip. This is what keeps the climbing/training fire going all winter. You spend the start of the winter training for the trip, then you go on the trip, then after getting back you take a few weeks rest and suddenly it is time to get ready for spring season. Plus some skiing to get outside and have fun during gym season.

This winter, I had 2 weeks to climb in Mexico in early December. I took the second half of December off from climbing to be fat and lazy over the holidays. Proper winter training season starts for me next week. This really only gives me ~10 weeks for a strength/power training cycle before outdoor season starts ramping up with a mid-March Smith trip.

Yes, the season in Colorado is way better/longer. No question. I also generally prefer the climbing there (I miss Rifle). If I could relocate my current job/life/etc situation to Colorado or Utah for the climbing opprotunites, I  would. But at this point it makes sense to stay in Seattle, and with a bit of flexibility I've been able to still make a lot of the season that is available here.  

slim wrote:

i see snowshoeing in your future. whatever you do, don't move here at the beginning of the nice season, it will only make the following winter that much more brutal  

You haven't seen my home moonboard/ training dungeon.

slim wrote:

that, or i had surgery on both shoulders a few weeks ago ....  :(

we met about 10 or 15 years ago, i thought i remembered you being more friendly than that :)

also, i have climbed at some the more challenging sport climbing areas.  it's ok, but definitely gloomy.  i think the alpine climbing up here is a lot better than the sport climbing, so i have kind of switched over to that a bit more.

It was harsh, but you were being whiny. Anyone who hasn't had recent should surgery could have been climbing outside at least two days a week this entire year. There is a ton of dry rock today, for instance, at Index. 

Being injured sucks, but we have a super reliable 9 month season here in Seattle, and a 12 month one on an El Nino year. It does require a more flexible life-style to take full advantage though, but that's true for a lot of places.