Most useful ball nut size

Depends on the place you are climbing. I used them quite a bit in the seams at JT for trad (not aid). #2, #3, #4. Never fell on them.

Healyje wrote:
Rock type? Free or aid? If free, how many times have you fallen on a #1? And what was the result?

We have a variety of super solid coastal sandstone here. One of the crags does not allow bolting, so I've done a lot of headpoint style FAs.. basically climb the route on self belay and bounce test the shit out of the gear before coming back to redpoint the route. A lot of the new routes have mandatory brass offsets, ball nuts, and black aliens. I would always clip them with a screamer just to be safe, but I was always very confident in them seeing that I had previously intensely bouce tested the pieces with much more force than a soft catch with a screamer. I'm surprised my #1 hasn't worn out yet, I've placed it hundreds of times and heavily weighted it more times than I can remember. They can be a pain to clean at first, but you kind of get used to it and it gets easier with time.  https://www.mountainproject.com/route/110165435/psycho-path#a_110165480

Evan Wisheropp wrote:

 I've placed it hundreds of times and heavily weighted it more times than I can remember.

Weighting it and falling on it are different deals. I certainly get placing it, but I've personally only had a #1 catch a fall once out of a number of falls which is why I consider the #1 and #2 marginal as a default in free climbing.

So you’re saying the number 1 and 2 have almost always pulled or just that you have only fallen on it once?

I'd say get the smallest 3 and extra of the smallest two, but it totally depends on what you're using them for.  I've had both blues and reds hold reasonably sized falls (in basalt and andesite) and it's worth noting that they're rated to 8kn.  One red (the second smallest) caught a ~20' fall close to the ground. (it actually kept me from decking)  I've had a lot of success testing these placements beforehand by funking them downard with a hammer and funkness.  Doing this you can easily create ~6kn of force which is all you're likely to generate in most falls anyway.

wisam wrote: So you’re saying the number 1 and 2 have almost always pulled or just that you have only fallen on it once?

No, I've fallen on them a number of times free climbing where I expected them to be marginal. The #2 fairs better than the #1, but both need to exquisitely placed in solid rock in order for them to hold a significant free climbing fall. I've fallen on a #3 more times than I can count including six 25-30 foot falls in one go alone working a roof.

Max Tepfer wrote: I'd say get the smallest 3 and extra of the smallest two, but it totally depends on what you're using them for.  I've had both blues and reds hold reasonably sized falls (in basalt and andesite) and it's worth noting that they're rated to 8kn.  One red (the second smallest) caught a ~20' fall close to the ground. (it actually kept me from decking)  I've had a lot of success testing these placements beforehand by funking them downard with a hammer and funkness.  Doing this you can easily create ~6kn of force which is all you're likely to generate in most falls anyway.

So you're aiding on them then?

No.  Not sure where you got that impression.  I was free climbing. Sometimes they were pre placed. Others they were placed on point. I’ve started taking a hammer and funkness to the crag when working a route with marginal pro to help assess its quality before committing to leading it. 

Max Tepfer wrote: No.  Not sure where you got that impression.

Possibly that reference to a hammer and funkness...

I was free climbing. Sometimes they were pre placed. Others they were placed on point. I’ve started taking a hammer and funkness to the crag when working a route with marginal pro to help assess its quality before committing to leading it. 

Hmmm, that seems a bit odd, but sure, whatever floats your boat.

Healyje wrote: Weighting it and falling on it are different deals. I certainly get placing it, but I've personally only had a #1 catch a fall once out of a number of falls which is why I consider the #1 and #2 marginal as a default in free climbing.

Not talking about body weight here. A strong series of vigorous bounce tests probably tugs on the the thing about as hard as a small fall with a soft catch, 80' of rope out, and a screamer. Why does it matter if it is marginal? The point of the ball nut is that it is better than nothing because you place it when nothing stronger fits.

Mid atlantic and up to the gunks- red was the money piece

Anytime I've used the #1 it's never been a place I could hang out and do vigorous tugs...