But it looks to me that you could do a 'turn out' here. That is to step back down to the circled holds.
switching the positions of your feet, trading off, left & right so, turning, facing out, then leaning against the wall to get a no-hands rest.?
This would leave 2 good holds and 1 less good to make the switch back ?
haha! , I thank you !
I have to ask their Mom, but my kids have hit their Monty Python phase, & there is an amazing version, in (black & white) of "Death Cab For Cutie"
oh H double hockey stick, here
https://youtu.be/qKXsrWrmbAg
To translate the meaning of "Zing" gotta go, the family and dog are literally waiting for me to go out the door to . . .GO!
zing gotta go!
Something’s happening here... I won’t sing the rest of the song but I’m surprised I grasped the general meaning of your post without a translation so either I’m tuning in or the decoder is secretly working. Thanks for taking the time to look at that photo and make the suggestion...I should really have posted a long shot of the whole route for perspective. Where my hands are is a completely horizontal roof. Both of my feet have to get directly under my hands to be able to get over that 90 degree edge. That move pictured is exactly where I let go every time...if only I had just one extra oomph.
Seeing that there are Dog Band routes I was browsing through route names to see if there was named for an old Cream song, “I’m Free” I’m wondering why there isn’t one and can I make one? I’m guessing that’s a whole other world with rules and cliques? Something I’ll ask around about. There oughta be a route with that great name. I still hum that song every time they let me out of the gate.
Thank you, Tim, and thank you Senor! Not cheeky at all! That's what I asked for! Of the two pictures, which one were you referring to stemming: the top one where I had already made it over the roof, or the one where I was working on it? The only way I could imagine resting on the roof is to hang from extended arms with feet on holds... which I can do for a short minute. The entire route is overhung.
I was talking about the lower of the two, where you're really leaning back and most of your weight on your right arm.
Here's a concept that's helpful for me when thinking about resting on the wall: Dolphins sleep only with 1/2 of their brain at a time. Meaning they very rarely sleep with the entire brain unconscious. Yet, look at how well rested they are. So I like to think of resting different parts of my body at different times. You may carry a lot of weight on your right arm and left leg, for example, while on an overhanging route, so that your left arm and right leg can shake out and rest. And vice-versa. Or get into a heel hook for a minute just to let your leg carry weight instead of your arms. It's all about figuring out how to share the burdens and never let any one system get too overwhelmed. Also, learning to pay attention to your breathing and pulse and be able to reel thing back before you over-rev is another valuable kind of awareness. Here's a little video for some inspiration.
Here's some inspiration for you. Kim Ja-in (or Jain Kim) has been one of the most successful (and most graceful) female competitors for years. Watch her rest with virtually every move. And, BTW, she's 5'0". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEzTMwXfVro
I was talking about the lower of the two, where you're really leaning back and most of your weight on your right arm.
Here's a concept that's helpful for me when thinking about resting on the wall: Dolphins sleep only with 1/2 of their brain at a time. Meaning they very rarely sleep with the entire brain unconscious. Yet, look at how well rested they are. So I like to think of resting different parts of my body at different times. You may carry a lot of weight on your right arm and left leg, for example, while on an overhanging route, so that your left arm and right leg can shake out and rest. And vice-versa. Or get into a heel hook for a minute just to let your leg carry weight instead of your arms. It's all about figuring out how to share the burdens and never let any one system get too overwhelmed. Also, learning to pay attention to your breathing and pulse and be able to reel thing back before you over-rev is another valuable kind of awareness. Here's a little video for some inspiration.
Thank you Senor! I love this! A new beginning...I’m going to practice resting. Thank you!
Lori Milas wrote: I'm stuck on a gym route, and very frustrated.
After a couple of trips to the gym I get one of these. Grade and type don't seem to be the controlling factor, but for whatever reason there is this one route I just can't do. So I dub it the "Nemesis", my evil adversary. It becomes a requirement that I attempt that route at least once per visit and mostly twice.
After a couple of trips to the gym I get one of these. Grade and type don't seem to be the controlling factor, but for whatever reason there is this one route I just can't do. So I dub it the "Nemesis", my evil adversary. It becomes a requirement that I attempt that route at least once per visit and mostly twice.
I find these sometimes, too. It's good to have an enemy to motivate you...
Lori Milas wrote: Michael is saying that in sandbaggy JT low grade climbs were soloed bitd, everything from 5.7 to 5.9 can be about the same, if your goal is harder routes, above 5.10 you should be careful and not hurt yourself, he fondly remembers climbing with your friend Bob and doing easy routes to impress girls, MPs rating on a route he put up is likely incorrect so be careful, the original name was questionable but changed.
Zing....gotta go
Think that covers it.....
I choked on a mouthful of dinner last night when I read these comments... I was laughing so hard. John, thank you for the proper translation. Now I understand EVERYTHING. Tim, I believe you have developed a combo-move that I can claim on my own FA and maybe even get me on the cover of Climbing "Screaming Woman Freezes Two Feet Off Ground, Requires SAR". Russ, there is no such web address, but I'm guessing you knew that.
May I ask a serious question here? Was going to direct it to the women, but probably anyone can help me out. I'm stuck on a gym route, and very frustrated. It's a long, off-balance route with small wandering holds leading up to a roof where there are maybe another 10 moves to get up, over and to the top. There is no opportunity for rest along the way. It's muscular and strenuous. The up and over (not shown here) I couldn't do it all in one shot a month ago, I couldn't do it yesterday. I need a long rest before tackling that roof. (picture here is during and after the battle ) When thinking about whatever strength training I need... I'm just wondering if I've met my limit. From the ground it looks so easy...
Thinking about it this morning, all I can come up with is to work the bottom part of that route until it is efficient and I can reserve some energy for the top... and then work the top 10 moves so that it is so dialed in there is no hesitation and I can power through it. The good news is I won't meet a route like this outdoors that needs this much strength for a long time, if ever. Maybe this is a dude thing? Or a 'get to the gym and lift weights' thing?
I don't know nuthin' but that left foot looks too high in the first pic. I reckon if you're rocking over to the left it'd be easier with a lower left foot.
rgold
·
Dec 9, 2018
·
Poughkeepsie, NY
· Joined Feb 2008
· Points: 526
Since we're all piling on without knowing what the situation is like, I agree with Carl; your whole body position looks off for what seems to be there. I tried to sketch what I would expect someone to do there...
Judging from your head position, you are trying to reach out left. The left leg is working against the move and should be down lower. Moving on that is almost certainly going to drain strength unnecessarily, both because the foot is working against the required movement and because your center of gravity is to the left of your hand-foot attachment points, obliging you to fight an "opening door" tendency. The entire body should be rotated and facing right for that reach. (I'm afraid "trunk rotated right" is unclear; many people would call that a rotation to the left. What I mean is that the trunk should be facing more to the right; right shoulder back, left shoulder forward, which is the opposite of your position.) Feet pointing right. In many situations, it would be better to have the left foot where the right foot is and the right foot flagged out even further right, because that puts the left foot underneath the right hand and everything aligns better that way (see book recommendation below). The perspective makes it unclear how that would work with the blank wall. There are also alternate hand position choices; can't tell from the pic whether that hold up and left of your head would be a better choice for the right hand, but it looks like it from here...
Or maybe not. I've given plenty of bad advice just standing underneath the moves, much less looking at a picture of them.
If you don't have a copy, I think it would be worthwhile to get The Self-coached Climber by Dan Hague and Doug Hunter, https://www.amazon.com/Self-Coached-Climber-Movement-Training-Performance/dp/0811733394 . They do more than anyone else I've read to try to provide explicit descriptions of the movement principles we old folks learned intuitively.
It looks like that route is set ( a bit bouldery) in a way that will force some backsteps, crosssteps flagging, and/or heel/toe hooks. As the bottom of it seems steep-- fair enough. Our setters here put up forced backsteps/crosssteps on slabs (artificial and unrealistic) and heel hooks on "beginner" routes-- dangerous (their hamstrings aren't there yet) and discouraging for actual beginners. Since the setters are a bunch of 16 y/o USAC boulderers, that is what we get. I am fine flagging or toe hooking, ok with semi-reasonable heel hooks, but not a big fan of backsteps or crosssteps. When I sense that I am going to "have" to do them (moves I rarely if ever use outdoors btw), I stretch my groin, IT bands, and obliques just a bit before doing the route. Helps my old body stay close to the wall. The holds on your route look reasonable. Just let your body meet the wall over the backstepped foot-- that will extend your reach. Think three-dimensionally (stem) as you pull through that transition section, and my guess is that you'll be fine from the look of things. Of course "seeing and saying" is one thing and "doing" another as we have all learned at some point!
It also honestly looks like you could face-climb the low angle slab to the left, get that jug-looking hold just below the lip with your right hand, exchange to the left hand, rotate your body and then leverage stem back across right to pull the lip onto the upper face. Three dimensional but awkward I am guessing with one grunty move up to that second set of matched holds on the upper section.
John Barritt wrote: I've studied the photos provided and the obvious problem is her chalk bag isn't centered......
You start off like that and you're going to fail......
I SO need these laughs. What a great way to start a morning! Thank you all. I have not browsed around much in other forums, so I don't know how it goes there and I don't know if this crew is exceptional or not. But to me, you are. Friendships have developed. And if nothing else, I've gotten a ton of support for climbing when I knew no one and was getting some serious flack from friends and family. I hope I can return the favor in kind.
I did not realize that my frustrating route would be a group project... and I didn't give you the kind of picture that would help you visualize the route. I'll be back at the gym today and try to get a picture of the WHOLE route. Don't mean to be too self-effacing but I'm sure any one of you could climb it. (10d) If Harumpster would show up and I could take a video, we'd probably see how it should be done. What I do have is one more picture of me, just before the heave over the edge... and as far as I know, that's the only way to get over it. This picture is where I always decide to hang a minute before trying it again and doing the surge. If I see anyone else climbing this route successfully, I'll post the picture.
The challenge at this juncture of this climb is to get my right foot up on next green foothold, and grab next green handhold with right hand... then stand and step up and over. (Yea... maybe backstep with the left...) I will take careful notes so we can solve this conundrum. Senor... you would fly up this, and it would be fun to watch.
Senor... I love that video so thank you so much for including it! Maybe I learn best by watching... one thing Bob does that no other guide or friend does... is to demonstrate every climb. He has rarely just left me to flounder. (But there does come a time when he can see I'm focused and I've got it... and there is that wonderful silence while climbing.) Wendy... I haven't watched yours yet, but will this morning.
So stay tuned for one last picture later today... and let it go if the subject has gotten boring. What I have learned from this discussion is a) if I've done every move before, then it's just a matter of sending the whole thing b) be patient c) learn how to rest while climbing. Will get to work on this.
It looks like that route is set ( a bit bouldery) in a way that will force some backsteps, crosssteps flagging, and/or heel/toe hooks. As the bottom of it seems steep-- fair enough. Our setters here put up forced backsteps/crosssteps on slabs (artificial and unrealistic) and heel hooks on "beginner" routes-- dangerous (their hamstrings aren't there yet) and discouraging for actual beginners. Since the setters are a bunch of 16 y/o USAC boulderers, that is what we get. I am fine flagging or toe hooking, ok with semi-reasonable heel hooks, but not a big fan of backsteps or crosssteps. When I sense that I am going to "have" to do them (moves I rarely if ever use outdoors btw), I stretch my groin, IT bands, and obliques just a bit before doing the route. Helps my old body stay close to the wall. The holds on your route look reasonable. Just let your body meet the wall over the backstepped foot-- that will extend your reach. Think three-dimensionally (stem) as you pull through that transition section, and my guess is that you'll be fine from the look of things. Of course "seeing and saying" is one thing and "doing" another as we have all learned at some point!
Mark... aside from your great suggestions... I'm wondering if we have the same kind of route setters. I was surprised at how professional the guys at my gym seem... if not a bit sadistic--and I think they travel through from gym to gym. I watched a group of five setters put up a new route last week... One had already set the holds earlier in the day, now they were all gathered to try out the route, comment on each hold, see if something needed to be tweaked or moved. It was probably a 5.12. The guys on the ground were watching intently each move the test-climber was making, and actively discussing with him as he climbed whether something needed to be moved right or left, etc.. When all were finally agreed that it was set right, they discussed grade. I don't know who assigns the whacky names, but that is half the fun. Some of these guys HAVE to be English majors, for all the obscure references.
I will say I have never seen a female setter. Now that's a problem! (It will be awhile before I can volunteer for the job.)
Rgold... thank you for your wonderful analysis! I cannot tell you what your drawings looked like pulled up on my iphone (not so soft porn ) but sitting in front of my computer, I can see it all perfectly (definitely NOT porn). I need a venn diagram. When I get a better picture of the route, I'll be able to see if your suggestions will work.
EDIT: Wendy, now I HAVE watched the video and it is exquisite. She's incredible! And you are right, she's resting the entire route. Thank you!
Has anyone climbed Sidewinder? I kind of have my eye on this route as a project--a tad over my abilities, perhaps, but I'd like to try. What's everyone else climbing, or lusting after these days? (climb-wise ) 2019 goals set yet?
rgold
·
Dec 10, 2018
·
Poughkeepsie, NY
· Joined Feb 2008
· Points: 526
Again in your last picture I think your body position isn't optimal. Taken together, the two pics suggest a tendency to climb square to the wall, which is the natural position and usually good on less than vertical terrain (i.e. outdoors) but which makes many things more strenuous on steep walls and especially indoors, where the footholds are good and pivoting is easy. In the last picture, I'm even more certain that you'd be significantly better off with the right foot and right knee facing left and your whole body turned sideways facing left. This would bring your center of gravity in and allow you to reach up with a straight left hand and and vigorous torso rotation (left shoulder back), rather than having to pull in with bicep and lat power.
rgold wrote: Again in your last picture I think your body position isn't optimal. Taken together, the two pics suggest a tendency to climb square to the wall, which is the natural position and usually good on less than vertical terrain (i.e. outdoors) but which makes many things more strenuous on steep walls and especially indoors, where the footholds are good and pivoting is easy. In the last picture, I'm even more certain that you'd be significantly better off with the right foot and right knee facing left and your whole body turned sideways facing left. This would bring your center of gravity in and allow you to reach up with a straight left hand and and vigorous torso rotation (left shoulder back), rather than having to pull in with bicep and lat power.
Wow! I'm going to try this! I think you have nailed it. I don't know if I have finger/hand strength to give it a go today, but I'd really like to try. It so far has been ALL biceps and lats...and I just have to take a long rest to summon the energy to climb it this way. Wouldn't it be something if your suggestion worked, Rgold? Thank you so much for taking the time.
Along those lines... I'm still trying to find a schedule of climbing and other workouts that allows me to get to the gym fresh. Over this last year my endurance and strength have really increased... but not so much my fingers. I climbed on Saturday. Monday is kind of soon for me to work on hard stuff... how do you guys pace yourselves?
Before climbing, I would have been at my regular gym this morning, doing weights... but knowing that I'll be at the climbing gym at noon, no way. It gets to be kind of a mind-boggling schedule to figure out different kinds of training... even a vigorous hike at altitude has to not come too close to an indoor climbing day for me.
Funny to be looking forward to two weeks climbing outdoors so my hands and arms can have a rest.
Nah. Sounds like your setters are a bit more experienced and thoughtful. Our gym has a very active and competitive youth climbing program, which is great. However, there seems to have been a recent decision to let these young comp bouldering folks set more throughout the gym, which I think wasn't the best. They haven't yet developed a strong enough sense of perspective, and they set more for their own training purposes than anything else. Their routes aren't very "old guy friendly" at all. In the first part of this year, I regularly was able to onsight or redpoint all but 5-6 routes in the gym in any given set. I currently have 19 unsent. I will whittle that down some, but I doubt I get into the single digits given the current state of things. My performance hasn't dropped similarly outdoors or at other gyms, but these sets do remind me that I am not a teenager anymore ...and my hips hurt:(!
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