Mountain Project is ruining climbing areas.

CTdave wrote: buy Nichols green book for CT.  You wont see people at most of places listed in that thing except for Ragged

But wouldn’t it suck if all of a sudden I want MP ‘points’ so I shared all those routes!?!? I own that book and climb a lot of those places, but wouldn’t want to see them posted. 

Here's something the east coast has that puts our lame fall colors to shame in the west.

Haha.  Come to western washington.  Good luck finding all the good crags with mp.

Tavish Hansen wrote: Haha.  Come to western washington.  Good luck finding all the good crags with mp.

Isn’t that the point of the OP? Would you want western Washington’s good crags all posted? If some guy bought a book or got invited to a crag for the first time and then blows up MP with every route he can remember and puts everything up on MP... would you be happy? I get the OP’s stance... MP shouldn’t encourage some ppl to spam in routes and crags to look cool. I’ve seen profiles that post tons of routes that they clearly didn’t discover/create. 

Tavish Hansen wrote: Haha.  Come to western washington.  Good luck finding all the good crags with mp.

Challenge accepted.  I will spoil your secrets and spray all the good spots. #Iboltcracks

It's not about MP, selfies or oil based layers----there's just too many dang climbers. Ropes are too safe now---we need to get back to goldline ropes which are 1 fall rated(maybe). Narrow the field a bit.

Ska Ggs wrote:

Isn’t that the point of the OP? Would you want western Washington’s good crags all posted? If some guy bought a book or got invited to a crag for the first time and then blows up MP with every route he can remember and puts everything up on MP... would you be happy? I get the OP’s stance... MP shouldn’t encourage some ppl to spam in routes and crags to look cool. I’ve seen profiles that post tons of routes that they clearly didn’t discover/create. 

Sounds like you PNW bois could give the SoCal cats a run for their money. 

Hey, who's the area admin for Sentinel Island?  We need to get some info on climbing there.

#toosoon?

rusty pitoune wrote: I think the mountain project gamification of blowing up climbs that the poster has neither FA'd or even sent is whacky. I get they are trying to collect routes and engagement for the sake of advertising, but should climbing topos and info really be wholly owned by REI? Support guidebook authors and general adventuring instead.

I vote to hell with mountain project points, except for those based only on First Ascents. 

Ya, cause these FA guys need more ego.

At least for me, posting a route has nothing to do with points.  It has to do with being part of a community and supporting that community.  Anybody who climbs in a place regularly is going to shell out for a guidebook sooner rather than later.  If you own a few ropes, full rack and several pairs of shoes, the cost of a few guidebooks for your most frequently visited areas is not the issue.  I really doubt the MP database decreases guidebook sales.

The route database serves as a resource to someone passing through an area, especially foreign visitors, or those who climb infrequently.  It's also great for sharing new routes in those long years in between guidebook editions or when guidebooks have become unavailable.  Many of the routes I've seen in the database are entries from the first ascentionists who want people to know about their routes.

phylp wrote: At least for me, posting a route has nothing to do with points.  It has to do with being part of a community and supporting that community.  Anybody who climbs in a place regularly is going to shell out for a guidebook sooner rather than later.  If you own a few ropes, full rack and several pairs of shoes, the cost of a few guidebooks for your most frequently visited areas is not the issue.  I really doubt the MP database decreases guidebook sales.

The route database serves as a resource to someone passing through an area, especially foreign visitors, or those who climb infrequently.  It's also great for sharing new routes in those long years in between guidebook editions or when guidebooks have become unavailable.  Many of the routes I've seen in the database are entries from the first ascentionists who want people to know about their routes.

I love to meet the lost visitors who only have MP to guide them. Buy the guidebook people!

perhaps it would be better if "someone passing through" or "foreign visitors who climb infrequently" did not automatically know about those sweet stashes...

at the end of the day, each stash is only preserved by local effort.

if you wanna pretend we live in a multiculti meltingpot where everything is just groovy...
then you should think about how in any place.  the volume of foreign visitors will always be able to overwhelm the local ability to maintain.   (see: the thread about how nearly every major climbing area is in some degree of danger of shutting down)

Mtn proj is always there when I'm driving through somewhere to climb for a day and don't feel like shelling out 20 to 50 bucks for a book. Obviously common sense and tact come into play, which is lacking frequently, but IMO the only thing ruining climbing is bat scientists, nature lovers, sport climbers, gym climbers, boulderers, Trump and cops.

Don't worry. I've stumbled upon more than one set of anchors while scouting out "new" crags.

Here in NM, we employ decoy crags--concentrations of tightly-bolted routes with soft grades and names like "Jacked Johnson" and "Brotique". This keeps 95% of the gym-rats away from the good routes, and concentrates all the dog feces, trash, and techno in small areas that are easy to clean and avoid. Every bro worth his spray has beta-flashed Jacked Johnson and returned to Boulder to report that the rock sucks and the stoke is low in New Mexico--both of which are 100% true. 

I promise not to show you my secret choss pile if you promise not to show me yours.

Logan Peterson wrote: Don't worry. I've stumbled upon more than one set of anchors while scouting out "new" crags.

Here in NM, we employ decoy crags--concentrations of tightly-bolted routes with soft grades and names like "Jacked Johnson" and "Brotique". This keeps 95% of the gym-rats away from the good routes, and concentrates all the dog feces, trash, and techno in small areas that are easy to clean and avoid. Every bro worth his spray has beta-flashed Jacked Johnson and returned to Boulder to report that the rock sucks and the stoke is low in New Mexico--both of which are 100% true.

I promise not to show you my secret choss pile if you promise not to show me yours.

Logan I can’t find either of these routes on MP. Please add and be sure to give it 4 stars if you put up the FA. TIA

You know what ruined Red Rock (Nevada)? The Red Rock Rendezvous. I would estimate that this climbing festival brought approximately 1,000+ new climbers to our area, luring them here with workshops at the crags. Well, guess what, those climbers keep on coming back and now Red Rock is an overcrowded mess. Thankfully the Rendezvous is giving it a rest this next year. Hopefully they call it quits for good!

The bottom line is that crowds are bad for climbing and these festivals create crowds. Save Red Rock - stop the Rendezvous!

rusty pitoune wrote: I think the mountain project gamification of blowing up climbs that the poster has neither FA'd or even sent is whacky. I get they are trying to collect routes and engagement for the sake of advertising, in return for stoking users egos, but should climbing topos and info really be wholly owned by REI? Support guidebook authors and general adventuring instead.

I vote to hell with mountain project points, except for those based only on First Ascents.

Thanks, this was my major point. People posting routes they didn’t discover, first ascend, or having any little something to do with the development of an area shouldn’t be encouraged/allowed to post them. It would be really shitty if someone posted something they didn’t have a hand on, then every bolt gets chopped because of it, ruining years of hard work someone else did.

John Hegyes wrote:The bottom line is that crowds are bad for climbing and these festivals create crowds. Save Red Rock - stop the Rendezvous!

Climbing festivals bring a lot of fornicating, too, and some of those damned kids then grow up to be climbers (or very unhappy belayers for dad and mom, jeez). I'm with you on boycotting that Rendezvous. Wotta shit show! How many parties can you cram on Solar Slab?

John Hegyes wrote: You know what ruined Red Rock (Nevada)? The Red Rock Rendezvous. I would estimate that this climbing festival brought approximately 1,000+ new climbers to our area, luring them here with workshops at the crags. Well, guess what, those climbers keep on coming back and now Red Rock is an overcrowded mess. Thankfully the Rendezvous is giving it a rest this next year. Hopefully they call it quits for good!

The bottom line is that crowds are bad for climbing and these festivals create crowds. Save Red Rock - stop the Rendezvous!

I could not agree more. Fuck the Rendezvous!