Does racism exist in climbing?

Anonymous wrote:

I should have clearified, I meant if he's seen it himself where he lives in Durango, CO.

So it's mostly targeted at larger organization? Not really in climbing, though?

ETA

I was surprised by how I initially read your comment. My brother use to live in Crested Butte and I went to Durango a couple of times. Didn't seem like a town beaming with hate. Of course, I was only there for a short time.

I haven't seen it much in Durango, specifically. But in the south yes, a lot, and I'm aware of singificant hate going on in other parts of the country. Durango has a small population that are still hateful towards native americans and latinos. 

Honestly the biggest source of hate IMO that exists in durango is general hostility against anybody who isn't a social justice warrior. The community has a way of alienating people who may agree with the ends of social justice but are disgusted by the means. 

Rico Tan wrote:

I’m surprised “Tim Stitch” hasn’t chimed in yet . I guess pretty soon though..

If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try your call again
If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try your call again
If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try your call again

Rico Tan wrote:     But do you mean to say I’m not allowed to discuss my personal experience with racism I encountered in climbing because I’m an “idiot “?  The topic is not worth talking about to you ?

No.  You are allowed to discuss whatever you like, and if you're able to read and understand, I said that topics regarding white's not understanding what a minority encounters/goes through are very important.  I said you hurt your cause by linking the wet rock issue to racism.  It makes the reader write you off, which I'm assuming you'd rather he/she didn't.

Rico Tan wrote: I already said I’m just trying to find out the experience from others, especially those who encountered it , if you don’t care for this topic , you don’t have to read or respond to it . You wrote a whole lot of words just to troll me with my none existent event that you’re convinced of happened, that you’re obessed about three years ago?   Good job.   You must live a very good life to have so much free time on your hands.

Not sure what all this means, but I do love a good obessing sesh.

Nawmean?!

Cheers
DMT

Just because an activity is not as popular with certain groups of people, does not make the activity or people that predominantly participate racist. I played club water polo and hockey in college and the each team was all white men and women, no one was racist or said black people could not join, they just preferred other available club sports.

Then you have groups like this, climbersofcolor.org, when asked if white people can come to events and a team member tells you "no, because you are white".

stolo wrote: Just because an activity is not as popular with certain groups of people, does not make the activity or people that predominantly participate racist. I played club water polo and hockey in college and the each team was all white men and women, no one was racist or said black people could not join, they just preferred other available club sports.

Then you have groups like this, climbersofcolor.org, when asked if white people can come to events and a team member tells you "no, because you are white".

I once heard a climber joke; "Why are there no black Himalayan climbers?

Because when they get above 20,000' their lips explode."

This guy would regularly use the N word, so,.. yes. There is racism in climbing.

If you can believe it, this idiot was a Dartmouth grad, and held an office in a climbing organization.

We have a ways to go.

Rico Tan wrote:

I agree. Like I said, in my experience “most climbers ” are friendly, open minded and have no problem with people from different culture background/race , but I believe there are exceptions. I’m just curious if it’s more prevalent than I thought and if other people/minority have a totally different experience.

Note I am not a minority, but I've been climbing for 15 years and never witnessed one racist incident or even heard a racist comment made by a climber (and I used to climb a lot in West Virginia, which is kind of a backward place.) I'm sure there are probably some racists climbers out there somewhere.  I'm sure if you pick any demographic and dig deep enough you can find racism or at least something you can construe as racism, but what's the point?

Someone above referred to white people as being the group in power. I think analyzing everything through that lens of power relations is a mistake. It is a concept that is useful in many contexts but I don't understand why people need to apply it to literally everything we do as humans. For example: I'm pretty sympathetic to #metoo and this kind of analysis makes sense when discussing harassment in the workplace. But I don't think it makes sense to analyze the community of climbers through that lens. Stop trying to bring your SJW agenda into literally everything.

Ocalslay Onlyyay wrote: No.  You are allowed to discuss whatever you like, and if you're able to read and understand, I said that topics regarding white's not understanding what a minority encounters/goes through are very important.  I said you hurt your cause by linking the wet rock issue to racism.  It makes the reader write you off, which I'm assuming you'd rather he/she didn't.

Not sure what all this means, but I do love a good obessing sesh.

Nawmean?!

Cheers
DMT

With your previous online behaviors and languages towards me , I really don’t care whatever it is you have to say . You’re the flies I was referring to , in case you don’t already know.     Oh , keep liking your every posts like it not obvious.  Mr. Burchy .                                                       To Stagg54 Taggart :   The point for me is I’m curious about other minority climbers’ experiences regarding this topic, I only got a few. But still  interesting. 

I would attribute the “racism” you experience online to poor writing skills. Reading seemingly unfocused walls of text makes readers a little annoyed.

I can’t speak to what you experience in the real life community, I know that I don’t experience a warm embrace from every climber or group of climbers I meet even though I am of the almighty white male race. It would suck to suspect the typically shitty behavior of many might be due to surface differences. The rocks should be there for everybody who feels the draw of the high lonesome.

Anonymous wrote: I suppose we should established which definition of "racism" we are discussing here.

Honestly most people here should learn to use proper verb tenses and when to use apostrophes and when not to before you jump into something as intellectually rich as the intricacies of different strains of racism in an outdoor adventure sport.  

Why?

I think this album will answer all queries.

Petsfed wrote:

This is essentially why the Winter Olympics are sometimes referred to as the “white olympics”. Sure, there’s nothing genetic to make whites dominate downhill skiing, but skiing often enough to become nationally (let alone internationally) competitive does take a lot of money, and in the places with good skiing, there’s a strong racial correlation to socioeconomic status.

I am now empty nest, and I definitely have it in my plans to contact Big Brothers or whomever and start bringing urban kids out.
And this is the solution in a nutshell.

For what it’s worth (which is not much, I admit), racism is driven by ignorance and inexperience. The more time kids (specifically) spend around folks that contradict the stereotype, the less likely they are to believe the stereotype. Most of the racists I know spent very little time in their youth around the folks they now hate.

This.

Socioeconomic status plays a big role in why minority’s aren’t as present in the outdoors. Climbing isn’t cheap compared to other sports around. 
Also, climbing can be intimidating especially if there aren’t many famous climbers/athletes who you can see yourself in. There really aren’t that many black climbers, alpinist, kayakers, etc around. Asians have been killing it on the world stage for climbing at least. Jain Kim is one of my favorite climbers ever. 

Side note. If anybody knows any tall crushers let me know (6’5+)! I’ve been wondering if my height is gonna limit the level I can reach since I’ve never heard of climbers around my height hitting harder than 5.13ish.

Rico Tan wrote: Does racism exist in climbing? I’m not talking about historical route names or the percentages of climbers that are minorities, or the climbing culture/Social media is mostly about white dudes and girls ( which it is ) , or how some minorities have less access to climbing due to income levels, locations, cultural heritages ..etc.                                         My question is , do some climbers exhibit unfriendly behaviors or bad attitudes towards you either in person or online because you’re a minority or let’s say, a “not preferred race” , or if some climbers would avoid or not respond to you as a climbing partner due to your (different) color or their (in your mind ) personal prejudice.                               From my personal experience , the majority of the climbers are friendly towards me ( Asian), but there’re also occasionally a few that would behave unfriendly, even hostile towards me , either at a gym, in person, or (pretty often) online . And I can’t think of any good reasons other than I’m of different color/race , after all things considered.                                 No matter what color you’re, I’d like to hear your personal stories, experience or thoughts on this topic. I hope I’m not being too controversial with this topic because that’s definitely not my intention here ,  it’s just after being attacked by quite a few trolls and online bullies,  with my image post on the public forum ( has since be deleted by admin), attacking my every offhanded comment posted , accusing me of things I didn’t even do YEARS AGO (which I can only attribute to they just don’t like me due to my Asian name/race/color of skin/heritage....).  Of courses lot of times people just like to attack you for fun, that’s just what bullies and trolls do after all , like shit eating flies, nothing at all to do with the R word , or my name, my color, me being a pushover.   But I’m still really , genuinely curious about what other people’s, especially if you as a minority’s experience are . Does racism exists in climbing interaction at all, online or in person, or it’s almost nonexistent , or I’m just the “lucky few” ?                   English is my second language so bare with my sometimes not very grammatical correct writing.                                             PS: not sure how many minority climbers will be reading this post, I suspect not many??? So the response I get may be very skewed/ biased, but I’m still curious.

“I told Adam the D bag he should get a room with T Stitch and get it on, like what he did with T’s mom last night. For some reasons they’re not lololol”

Are you biased too Rico Tan?

The op reminds me of my cat and is a good reminder that it is not always about you.  Sometimes I am in a hurry and rushing around the house. Hugo the cat will give me a funny look and scoot into one of his safe spots as if he thought I was chaseing him. No I was not chaseing him I was simply moveing fast to get the dishes put away and dinner cooked. No It is not always about you.  Trolls are just assholes that give people shit about everything. highly unlikely that it was about race  but then again if it was it is just a troll and they are sub human anyways.    
  On the other hand we are all racist to a certain degree. it is human nature. we look at anyone who is different from us and try to figure out what their deal is.   We as humans also judge everyone and everything. This is why sports and grades exist. We always need to find out who is best and where we fit in that equation.   The Op is just as racist as the rest of us by wondering if the privledged white people are picking on him because of race... perhaps it is just because he is annoying and race has nothing to do with it?  

Anonymous wrote:

When you hit 5.12 we can have that discussion.

I have, but thanks for the helpful input. 

Fehim Hasecic wrote:

“I told Adam the D bag he should get a room with T Stitch and get it on, like what he did with T’s mom last night. For some reasons they’re not lololol”

Are you biased too Rico Tan?

Am I biased against the trolls ? Yes , I’m biased against the trolls. Is that racism, no , it’s not. 

Happy Thanksgiving, you racist bastards.

O’Shay Kramer wrote:

This.

Socioeconomic status plays a big role in why minority’s aren’t as present in the outdoors. Climbing isn’t cheap compared to other sports around. 
Also, climbing can be intimidating especially if there aren’t many famous climbers/athletes who you can see yourself in. There really aren’t that many black climbers, alpinist, kayakers, etc around. Asians have been killing it on the world stage for climbing at least. Jain Kim is one of my favorite climbers ever. 

Side note. If anybody knows any tall crushers let me know (6’5+)! I’ve been wondering if my height is gonna limit the level I can reach since I’ve never heard of climbers around my height hitting harder than 5.13ish.

I have to admit, I would be staring at you, based on your minority status. I apologise in advance, if we ever meet, but, see, 6'5"+ crushers are just so rare!!!

So are 4'11"- ones. :-)

Rico, I truly believe the troll that got you fired up is not racist, based on past conversations and posts. That, plus the fact he is an equal opportunity troller, lol! Yes, I'm sure there are racists in climbing just as there are everywhere. Does it matter? Yeah, but don't look for it everywhere. If you slip into that mindset, you will be wrong, more often than you may realize. Save the napalm for the big fights, when jail time is a risk worth taking. Day to day? If good people do or say stupid things, let them know, clearly, why that wasn't cool. Eventually? They just may join you at that rally. There have been heaps of threads on the gender thing in climbing, with the very nice result that many thoughtful conversations have happened, on and off of MP. How can you expect someone else to know what it is like to be you, if you are not willing to talk to people? So? Thanks for posting, and conversing. 

Best, Helen