Dropped Gear Protocol

Roy Suggett wrote: Off the topic a bit...or not, but I thought that if a piece of gear (cam, biner, belay device) was dropped from some distance, said piece might have developed micro cracks that could lead to failure.  If in fact this is true, total replacement with a new piece would seem prudent.

The piece only needs to be retired if you can see damage or it does not function correctly after the drop. 

Roy Suggett wrote: Off the topic a bit...or not, but I thought that if a piece of gear (cam, biner, belay device) was dropped from some distance, said piece might have developed micro cracks that could lead to failure.  If in fact this is true, total replacement with a new piece would seem prudent.

Totally false, totally debunked. 

Fehim Hasecic wrote: Boohoo, cry me a river! Cam was found, some cosmetic damage on one of the lobes ( I’ll take my chances with micro fractures). He’ll get one of my cams, used like his (probably with less mileage and in better shape). I was gonna buy him a new one but upon inspecting the dropped one I didn’t see a need to replace it with new one. I can’t believe that he would actually go behind my back and ask total strangers for their opinion (I’m butthurt so bad) instead of discussing it with me some more and getting nowhere (well somewhere since I’m giving him a replacement cam). Weak sauce Hugh!

Hugh didn't disclose your name; you did. (if you really were his partner)

Fehim Hasecic wrote: Boohoo, cry me a river! Cam was found, some cosmetic damage on one of the lobes ( I’ll take my chances with micro fractures). He’ll get one of my cams, used like his (probably with less mileage and in better shape). I was gonna buy him a new one but upon inspecting the dropped one I didn’t see a need to replace it with new one. I can’t believe that he would actually go behind my back and ask total strangers for their opinion (I’m butthurt so bad) instead of discussing it with me some more and getting nowhere (well somewhere since I’m giving him a replacement cam). Weak sauce Hugh!

Bwahahaha! You know i love you! Remember i offered to take it back but you insisted. I didnt say anything else cuz you know i dont care. However,  I am interested in what other's philosophy is in the issue.  

FrankPS wrote:

Hugh didn't disclose your name; you did. (if you really were his partner)

So was I supposed to create a fake account and defend my name to bunch of strangers even though it could have been hypothetical scenario and an off chance there’s another HughC out there? I think not, I’m not going to let someone soil my name anonymously or not!

HughC wrote: This might check some of the snark....  It happened, no big deal, I offered to take it back ( He is like a brother, so I just wanted to give him a bunch of shit for dropping it.)  However, he insisted on replacing it and thus the debate on the "Protocol".  Mine is, I drop a nut no big deal. Your call.  I drop your cam, I replace it no questions nor debate.   I wanted to put it out there on MP , just to see how other climbing partners deal with it.  And I want to climb with this Burt Bronson dude!  He sounds like my kind of crusty, Tim!

Lol! You're both good people. :-)

My default is to be generous and forgiving. People and friendships are all worth far more than stuff. Be happy it was just a cam. My partners iPhone took the death plunge while in my care, and I cut him a check for his deductible as soon as I was home. Doesn't matter how it happened, I choose to take responsibility.

There is also the karma thing. The five or six alpine draws I bought new this spring are all gone now. Went home with two different people. That's my bad for not paying attention. Both offered to mail them back, but, I told both to keep them. I am confident they will have the opportunity to do a kindness for someone else, down the road.

All of the above is what I choose to do, myself. I do not expect to have the same kindness back, from everyone, right that moment. That said? I have had an extraordinary amount of kindness come my way, including a really hefty percentage of my rack. When the first two draws went missing? I had a package to open the next day, from someone else entirely who knew nothing about this. Inside? Two draws.....and two cams. Be kind. Always. :-)

Best, Helen

In the Book of Climbing Commandments it says:

1. Gear is meant to be used
2. Gear is meant to be broken
3. Gear is meant to be lost

I'd buy something I lost or broke that belonged to someone else but, in the reverse situation, if they couldn't afford to replace my gear  I wouldn't care and if they just didn't, well, that would teach me something about them.

Roy Suggett wrote: Off the topic a bit...or not, but I thought that if a piece of gear (cam, biner, belay device) was dropped from some distance, said piece might have developed micro cracks that could lead to failure.  If in fact this is true, total replacement with a new piece would seem prudent.

We couldn't even make it past the first page before someone brought up the myth of microfractures.

Kevin Mokracek wrote: I don't expect partners to replace dropped gear or stuck gear.   If they do thats a bonus but I don't want to deal with the drama.  

It's not drama for adults. Its doing the right thing. its $65... cmon. lol. 

Well. There are limits. Knock over my coffee, you are far up (down?) shit creek without a paddle.

Don't show, or cancel on a feeble excuse? Waaayyyy worse than anything involving mere gear.

Both are in the serious cranky category, a line you would do well not to cross!

Best, Helen

Wes Turner wrote:

It's not drama for adults. Its doing the right thing. its $65... cmon. lol. 

I just don't care.   If it becomes a habit with a particular partner maybe its time to have a talk or find a new partner but the situation just doesn't come up often enough to worry about it.  Most of the guys I climb with can't afford to be buying gear in the first place, I just let it slide.   A good reliable partner is worth more than a cam.

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

I just don't care.   If it becomes a habit with a particular partner maybe its time to have a talk or find a new partner but the situation just doesn't come up often enough to worry about it.

Sure. I wouldn't make a big deal about it.... But no one would have to ask me to do it. It'd be the first thing outta my mouth is my real point. " hey man, my bad on that. I'll spring for a new one" or I'd say... "my bad, I'll send you one of mine asap."... 

I'd make the persons rack whole.  

Never happened to me or a partner of mine with me...... over many years. So, its a hypothetical.

When I've straight up dropped partners' gear I've replaced it with new gear even if we recovered it. If my partner drops my gear and we recover it I don't want a new one unless it is destroyed.  Times when I've destroyed or damaged cams cleaning them I've offered to pay half if I felt the partner contributed to the situation i.e. the placement was too tight or if it walked into a shitty position. 

Roy Suggett wrote: Off the topic a bit...or not, but I thought that if a piece of gear (cam, biner, belay device) was dropped from some distance, said piece might have developed micro cracks that could lead to failure.  If in fact this is true, total replacement with a new piece would seem prudent.

Studies have debunked this ... like an old wives tale about warts coming from frogs ... no truth but everyone hears it. 

I think we can all agree that Helen aka old lady H is awesome!!

Ska Ggs wrote:

Studies have debunked this ... like an old wives tale about warts coming from frogs ... no truth but everyone hears it. 

Obviously look at your gear, but no ‘under the surface lurks danger’ issues

You're telling me that I bought a scanning electron microscope for NOTHING?

#microcracks!!!! YGD.

But furreal, split the replacement cost 50/50...if you choose to buy used, bonus for them...if you choose to buy new, maybe they shouldn't have dropped it to start with.

If you make the deal to go climbing on your gear, you have to go into it knowing sometimes shit happens. If it's a bonehead error like leaving a piece behind at an anchor or something, then you can have the 100% cost discussion...but if it's an accident (as does happen) split should be 50/50. If it happens often with a single partner, maybe invest in a different partner.

Mark Andes wrote:

You're telling me that I bought a scanning electron microscope for NOTHING?

Not at all! They're great fun at parties!

Tim Stich wrote:

Your elders were weenies.

Tim - they were ex-guides from a period in time where people had integrity and understood accountability.

You drop it - you bought it.

Roots wrote:

Tim - they were ex-guides from a period in time where people had integrity and understood accountability.

You drop it - you bought it.

this is rockclimbing not a china shop