CLIMBING IS RUINED! Thanks gym people

Mark E Dixon wrote:

And boulder V10

Im starting to feel like I got trolled. 

You’re not a real climber unless you’ve been trolled and flamed on MP.

I'm more than happy to let gym climbers think what they want to think. All I know is when I see one of those Belay Certified tags from a gym I turn and run the other way for my own safety

THIS JUST IN!

GRUMPY CLIMBER IS GRUMPY

OP is just pissed he’s not certified as a leader? It’ll come, you just have to clip the clippy things the right way and stop putting the rope behind your leg. And for godsakes, pull the nut tool and PAS thong off your harness, you’re ruining the gym vibe!

Dallin Carey wrote: Gym climbing is like masturbation.
--It can be quite enjoyable.
--If done properly and with great attention to detail, it can be used as training, if not, it wont translate all that well to the big time.
--It's somewhat easier because you can see where all the hold(s?) are.
--There is a whole market of products aimed at making your experience better.
When finished, you haven't really accomplished anything meaningful, but you had a great time hopefully.

You missed one...

--There's a magazine for it.

How can you know a good climber at the crag unless they have that leader tag on display ?
You see me and a guy with 4 lead badges on ... who you asking for beta? The guy with beat up nuts and mismatched cams or The gym climber who is certified ... gymclimber every time. 

Martin Harris wrote: I personally don't think any one can judge what a real climber is unless they climb 5.12 sport and 11+ trad.  As for modern standards this makes you a moderate climber at many outdoor crags.

Meh, a little light there.

 8a/13b sport ( every geriatric grandmother in Spain does this), 

12c trad (SLC toddlers)

WI6/M9 (Canadian juvenile delinquents on drugs)

A5+ (California juvenile delinquents on drugs)

If you can do ALL of this competently, only then you are a reall climber (maybe)

J. eL.enor wrote: Troll better, trollkin. See: Tradiban, Fritz, Boondoggle, Aleks, VaporSpell, RGold.

Me, a troll? I'm flattered. Do show me where, so I can frame the post on my wall. 

NorCalNomad wrote: THIS JUST IN!

GRUMPY CLIMBER IS GRUMPY

Dog That Can Smell Bad Posts wrote: Bark

bleat

Martin Harris wrote: I personally don't think any one can judge what a real climber is unless they climb 5.12 sport and 11+ trad.  As for modern standards this makes you a moderate climber at many outdoor crags.

Only if you don't know what the word "moderate" means.

5.11 is kinda the middle range if you count every single grade and divide by half but I don't know if anything is really constantly graded. Is the difference between a 5.14a and 5.14b really the same level of increase between 5.2 and 5.3? Than are you going what the middle grade is or do you want the real average if you take every single person who climbs and average out their ability on all types of climbs. My friend climbs like V10 but can't do a 5.10a sport so I can only imagine what he would do on a trad route.

I don't get the alarmist post.

If gym climbing isn't climbing, why is climbing ruined?

Spaggett, Gotcha! wrote: 
If gym climbing isn't climbing, why is climbing ruined?

ahhhhh got you there...

Marc801 C wrote:

Only if you don't know what the word "moderate" means.

Ok, fine! A beginner gumby chuffer then! :-/

Daniel Melnyk wrote: It’s pretty obvious that the climbing industry is catering heavily to gym climbing. North Face has a gym climbing appears line, the new Gym Climber magizine, that new BD video talking about some dude that went back to the gym.

TRIGGER WARNING
Gym climbing isn’t real climbing
It’s fun, great for training and how most people start nowadays but if that’s where you stop, you’re not really a climber.

You miss out on the culture, nature, scary trad routes, bad boulder falls etc. 
I’ve seen people at the gym that have those “lead certified” cards on their harness from multiple gyms, like it’s a badge of honor. 
Not really sure where I’m going with this, just rambling and scared for the future of climbing. 

More people in the gym and less people outside? I aint mad.

Crowds are ruining climbing.  Gyms played a role in generating the growth, but the gyms are not going away.  If you want to help preserve the experience of climbing without gym like crowds at outdoor areas, stop crticizing gym climbing.  We should all be doing everything we can to reinforce the idea that gym climbing is fun, challenging, good for fitness, much more convenient than going outside, really hip and an awesome activity all around.  Gym climbing is for more motivated, successful people who have more to do with their day than spend hours driving and hiking in addition to getting in a few routes in.  Gym climbing is a purer, distilled athletic experience that does not involve the vagaries of deteriorating rock or the compromises that must be made due to weather or safety issues when outside.   Also -- we should all fight the gymnification of outdoor crags by objecting to and removing fixed draws and bolts where there is any chance of natural protection.

Daniel Melnyk wrote: It’s pretty obvious that the climbing industry is catering heavily to gym climbing. North Face has a gym climbing appears line, the new Gym Climber magizine, that new BD video talking about some dude that went back to the gym.

TRIGGER WARNING
Gym climbing isn’t real climbing
It’s fun, great for training and how most people start nowadays but if that’s where you stop, you’re not really a climber.

You miss out on the culture, nature, scary trad routes, bad boulder falls etc. 
I’ve seen people at the gym that have those “lead certified” cards on their harness from multiple gyms, like it’s a badge of honor. 
Not really sure where I’m going with this, just rambling and scared for the future of climbing. 

Gym climbing is but a by-product of the "grow the sport" mentality.  Everyone likes climbing better when there are not a ton of people around.  This is a thing of the past, unfortunately.  Why?  Well, because money, that's why.  It's what drives everything.  If you had influence and the ability to reach millions of people with a message and that enabled you to make more money doing what you love, wouldn't you?  One could argue that the real explosion started happening after Honnlove's 60 minutes interview, and the increase of indoor climbing facilities at that time and since seems to at least partially corroborate that.  There are so many factors involved though, it's hard to pinpoint a root cause.

Ron Kauk, Lynn Hill and Bachar did commercials in the 80s and 90s, and there were tons of people decrying horror of the explosion of sport climbing and the appearance of droves of bolted lines that seem to be appearing almost overnight.  One could almost argue this is a sped-up continuation of that progression.  Many of the same things have been said over the decades- the same things you're saying now.  You can just replace sport climbing with gym climbing for your scenario.  Back to the factors though- media is a huge one.  Social media, commercials, now movies, climbing being in the upcoming Olympics, marketing strategies from companies that now have REAL revenue to finance it, you name it.  

Seems like you fashion yourself a cut above those lowly 'gym climbers'- and if we're being honest here, most of us do.  It takes more knowledge, dedication, expertise, acceptance and management of risk, and sense of adventure, and it's much more rewarding as a result of all these things.  But it's not going away, and taking the low road to curmudgeonville isn't likely to help anything, though it may relieve some frustration temporarily.  It's not like the gear companies, pros that dirtbagged it forever, upcoming/developing pros, gyms and whoever else profits is going to wake up one day and decide they don't like making more money.  Fighting it is futile.  

Damn this is depressing.  Not sure what message I had originally, but it seems to be lost in my sudden onset of utter despair.  Carry on.

Mark E Dixon wrote: You’re not a real climber unless you’ve been trolled and flamed on MP.

ding ding ding!