Bolts don't change the experience

Didn’t this horse die in the 90s?

Why does everything have to be dumbed down for everybody?

Who would support putting bolts in at runout trad sections, off to the side that would make it almost a guaranteed fall if you try to clip them, just to screw with people who don't want to climb it properly?

ViperScale . wrote: Who would support putting bolts in at runout trad sections, off to the side that would make it almost a guaranteed fall if you try to clip them, just to screw with people who don't want to climb it properly?

Thinking outside the box, I like! Better yet, fake bolts put on with silly putty.

While we are going outside the box what about a good route that traverses with targets at the base you have to try to poop on for extra points while in the middle of the lead?

Chuck Parks wrote:

I think seb was saying if the protection's good except for the runout, just put a bolt in the runout and leave the rest alone.

(Not agreeing nor disagreeing with that sentiment, just trying to facilitate understanding.)

Totally, Mabe I'm reading into it wrong but the way I read it seemed to imply 12 feet isnt considered runout

Justice Holloway wrote:

Totally, Mabe I'm reading into it wrong but the way I read it seemed to imply 12 feet isnt considered runout

Is 12ft considered runout anywhere? It doesn't become a short runout where I live until 20ft and isn't really runout unless it is 30ft+. 120ft pitch with 1 bolt in the middle is runout here =/ Really wish they would add more bolts to that route but well FA bolted it on lead without climbing shoes so well noone wants to really change it.

If it's at T-wall or Sunset chop it or I'm coming back across the country with a pitchfork. If it's at Leda, then it might make a good mixed climb, which is relatively in line with the area, if the bolt was added by the FA or with consent. But letting something like this happen at T-wall or Sunset is just awful. Blasphemy I say!

The climbing community and Chattanooga has been changing quite a bit recently, and not all of it has been good change. 

eli poss wrote: If it's at T-wall or Sunset chop it or I'm coming back across the country with a pitchfork. If it's at Leda, then it might make a good mixed climb, which is relatively in line with the area, if the bolt was added by the FA or with consent. But letting something like this happen at T-wall or Sunset is just awful. Blasphemy I say!

The climbing community and Chattanooga has been changing quite a bit recently, and not all of it has been good change. 

1/10, gotta finish with getting them kids out of your shed

Isn’t Sunset controlled by the NPS and you need a permit to add bolts?
If I remember correctly and that’s true, then random bolts definitely shouldn’t be popping up at sunset

The guy is correct, he just happens to be expressing an idea that does not fit the dominant climber ideology. One day we will move on from the idea that the FA owns the rock in perpetuity, and it will seem strange that we ever believed it.

Jaren Watson wrote: For all anyone knows, the OP’s trolling. Without knowing which route at which crag, the best anyone can say to his question is, I don’t know. It depends.

Very few routes should be retro-bolted. The developer and the local (i.e., not MP) community, and, if appropriate, the land manager should be consulted.

To say “never” indicates a hardline attitude unwilling to consider factors beyond one individual’s personal feelings. But there are other factors worth considering.

Not so much trolling as fishing.  The way he phrased the question made it clear the responses he was looking for.

"Bolts". How many bolts do you need to protect a 12ft section? And how hard is that particular section?  At T-wall or Sunset these should and will get chopped.  A 12ft runout at the top of a route doesn't constitute a death route, just a runout.  

I've climbed a couple of 5.11 routes at Whiteside with 60ft runouts, but the unprotected sections were on well featured 5.7 terrain- a little intimidating when casting off, but very doable. If those runouts were on 5.11 terrain these routes would never get climbed. My guess is that this 12ft section is not the crux of the route and is probably very doable as is. Welcome to Trad climbing - sometimes it's scary.

The way I read the OP, the bolter bolted the entire route, not just the 12' runout. There would be much less objection to the latter.

I wrote:   

I believe he was talking about that 12' stretch, not the entire route.

I reread the OP - I retract the above statement; is seems like the bolter bolted the entire route, not just the 12' runout.

Noah Yetter wrote: One day we will move on from the idea that the FA owns the rock in perpetuity, and it will seem strange that we ever believed it.

Yeah, that is a common sentiment among those who appreciate a good retrobolt.

Marc801 C wrote:

I believe he was talking about that 12' stretch, not the entire route.

No no, I meant the whole thing, while you can argue if it's easily protectable why not just let it be a gear route, you could make the argument that if it's easily protectable bolting the route doesn't change the character of the route at all, rather than asking "why bolt it" i'm asking "why not", while there are plenty of route where you could make a big argument for why it shouldn't be bolted the route as it's been described to me really lacks any argument for why it shouldn't be bolted.

Noah Yetter wrote: The guy is correct, he just happens to be expressing an idea that does not fit the dominant climber ideology. One day we will move on from the idea that the FA owns the rock in perpetuity, and it will seem strange that we ever believed it.

No FA ever owns the rock.

The FA does own the route (the original protection scheme) in perpetuity. Its their Art unless there is massive community outcry that it is a botched job.

SO much rock go make your own routes.

Retrobolters just want it made for themselves for a moments convenience. I promise you in 30 years you will look at it all differently when the passage of time clues you in to what a real route is worth and you have forgotten countless sport routes, as fun as the moment's pleasure was.

To clarify, he was not the first ascensionist, he rap bolted the entire route without permission from the FA.