Do I need to stop drinking beer and alcohol to climb 5.12 [Solved! Nope! But I'll cut back anyways]

Ted Pinson wrote: So you’re saying the “studies” I posted (I never actually posted any studies) are junk because I posted them?  Lol.  You realize that this is blatantly ad hominem and not actually an argument, right?  You should probably also know that I didn’t “google the topic at hand,” I actually went specifically to Layne because I’m familiar with his work and know that he 1) is actually a PHD nutritionist and researcher 2) is also a professional bodybuilder and has personal experience in training 3) does not push any one fad diet and in fact spends a lot of his time debunking junk diets.

So you can certainly tear down my personal credentials (I’m a lowly 5.11 climber who only TRs 5.12), but you can’t really do that for him or for Manuel Huber, who climbs much harder than you ever will.  So unless you have an actual argument that does not involve my ticklist, kindly shut the fuck up and go troll somewhere else.

actually, do you have any papers from him? actual papers that are prjs? what he does or doesn't climb is kind of irrelevant.

cal in - cal out is kind of a thermodynamic property that can't be violated, regardless of hormones. for example, you can make it less efficient (thyroid problems), but you can't become fat while taking in 0 calories. regardless of what disease or combinations, there is no weigh(*way) to gain weight on a deficit.

diet is irrelevant as long as you aren't malnourished.
https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb210-Malnutrition-Hospital-Stays-2013.pdf
if you're eating food, there are almost no cases of malnourishment. gold medal athletes have literally nothing in common. indicating diet is completely irrelevant.
"Michael Phelps (whose legendary training diet involved 12,000 calories of eggs, French toast, pizza, and pasta ..."
"In the ten days Bolt spent in Beijing, he downed approximately 1,000 nuggets, averaging 100 a day. At 940 calories per 20-piece box, that means that Usain ate about 4,700 calories worth of Chicken McNuggets a day and 47,000 calories over the course of his stay in China. "

most of you have grossly overestimated your necessary calories for nutrition. if you love food (at 200+ lbs), accept that climbing will suffer.

Aweffwef Fewfae wrote:

actually, do you have any papers from him? actual papers that are prjs? what he does or doesn't climb is kind of irrelevant.

cal in - cal out is kind of a thermodynamic property that can't be violated, regardless of hormones. for example, you can make it less efficient (thyroid problems), but you can't become fat while taking in 0 calories. regardless of what disease or combinations, there is no weigh(*way) to gain weight on a deficit.

diet is irrelevant as long as you aren't malnourished.
https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb210-Malnutrition-Hospital-Stays-2013.pdf
if you're eating food, there are almost no cases of malnourishment. gold medal athletes have literally nothing in common. indicating diet is completely irrelevant.
"Michael Phelps (whose legendary training diet involved 12,000 calories of eggs, French toast, pizza, and pasta ..."
"In the ten days Bolt spent in Beijing, he downed approximately 1,000 nuggets, averaging 100 a day. At 940 calories per 20-piece box, that means that Usain ate about 4,700 calories worth of Chicken McNuggets a day and 47,000 calories over the course of his stay in China. "

most of you have grossly overestimated your necessary calories for nutrition. if you love food (at 200+ lbs), accept that climbing will suffer.

I'll just observe that every single example in this post is some sort of extreme example and no first hand experience. 

My old friend Steve Edwards, who was a tremendous climber (not that it matters) and who helped literally thousands of people lose weight and become fit, would tell people to focus  first on the quality of the food they're eating, to get regular, daily, exercise to stimulate the metabolism to burn more calories and, finally, to use performance in terms of how your exercise is progressing, how you feel, etc, as the guide to whether or not you've found an ideal caloric intake. He was a big proponent of zig-zagging with calories to find an appropriate level. And he was opposed to extreme caloric deficits. The key point is that there's not a fixed "calories in, calories out" number for everyone. I'm a 170 lb man and my caloric needs are uniquely tied to my age, my day to day exercise levels, my level of mental stress. Among other things. Focusing soley on cutting calories IN overlooks the fact that it's often much more effective to focus on calories out. Get some regular daily HIIT exercise. Eat a bit more, even, but ramp up your metabolism through exercise. Beer and other alcohol are just one piece. They don't add anything positive to your nutritional balance, so it's an easy way to eliminate some useless calories if you are cutting calories. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

I'll just observe that every single example in this post is some sort of extreme example and no first hand experience. 

My old friend Steve Edwards, who was a tremendous climber (not that it matters) and who helped literally thousands of people lose weight and become fit, would tell people to focus  first on the quality of the food they're eating, to get regular, daily, exercise to stimulate the metabolism to burn more calories and, finally, to use performance in terms of how your exercise is progressing, how you feel, etc, as the guide to whether or not you've found an ideal caloric intake. He was a big proponent of zig-zagging with calories to find an appropriate level. And he was opposed to extreme caloric deficits. The key point is that there's not a fixed "calories in, calories out" number for everyone. I'm a 170 lb man and my caloric needs are uniquely tied to my age, my day to day exercise levels, my level of mental stress. Among other things. Focusing soley on cutting calories IN overlooks the fact that it's often much more effective to focus on calories out. Get some regular daily HIIT exercise. Eat a bit more, even but ramp up your metabolism. Beer and other alcohol are just one piece. They don't add anything positive to your nutritional balance, so it's an easy way to eliminate some useless calories if you are cutting calories. 

Senor, I am also acquainted the famous Birthday Challenge man (RIP) and agree with his methods. Did you perhaps ever know the Asain Sensation and Drinking Society Executair Todd M?!

Aweffwef Fewfae wrote: cal in - cal out is kind of a thermodynamic property that can't be violated, regardless of hormones. for example, you can make it less efficient (thyroid problems), but you can't become fat while taking in 0 calories. regardless of what disease or combinations, there is no weigh(*way) to gain weight on a deficit.

One of the videos I gave as an example showed 1,000 calories in, 800 calories used for energy, and 200 calories put in to fat, because of hormone levels. That made the individual still hungry, so they'd eat more, and the loop continued. That doesn't violate the first law of thermodynamics, but if you know of someone (or are someone) where dieting doesn't seem to work: this scenario may be why. > 85 million Americans are prediabetic, so it's not out of the ordinary that this might be a problem. 

The Olympic shitty diet example is a bit silly, unless you yourself are doing the intense workouts that also burn those calories. During intense workouts (for example), there is a way the body processes sugary food in a way that doesn't cause this insulin spike. If you ever wonder how a keto ultrarunner is able to run a 100 mile race, it's because they're sucking down sugary gels, just like the rest of us. Also, Chicken McNuggets are one of only seven things only the McDonalds menu that does not contain added sugar (as long as you don't use the dipping sauce).

Go to 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell and be bewildered by all of the drunkards who can cruise 5.12 in their sleep.
If you drink in moderation, I don't know that its that big of a deal - just be conscious of the role alcohol plays in your life/ on your body. If you wake up feeling achey, or are gaining any weight, it may be a good call to abstain. 

Tradiban wrote:

Senor, I am also acquainted the famous Birthday Challenge man (RIP) and agree with his methods. Did you perhaps ever know the Asain Sensation and Drinking Society Executair Todd M?!

I don't think I know Todd M. 

J.Roatch wrote: Usually 1-2 drinks a night, 5 days a week. Occasionally more than 2

I turned away from this hobby to clean up and push my limits on the wall. Sent 5.12 in 3 years, working full time. I never quit the weekend beer. 

Mike Mellenthin wrote: I offer myself as proof that one can both (a) drink to excess and (b) climb 5.12. Sometimes even at the same time.

You're profile says you're 23? I'm 37, so perhaps I have a little more perspective on the effects of alchohol and diet on the body over time. The effects of a bad diet/overindulging add up to become chronic issues. One week of eating/drinking doesn't really effect you long-term. 1,000 of those weeks does. Reversing those issues is hard. Developing as an athlete takes a long time commitment. Those two things are in opposition.

Not many people can perform in their late 30's as they did in their early 20's, without some changes in their diet, booze/drug intake, and life outlook. If you're not already at a level you want to attain, it makes sense to cut some crap out that's obviously hampering you. It'll make progression go faster - and guess what? There's a time limit to some of these types of goals: you get too old, or you break your body too badly, or you get a real job, or you fall in love with someone and you're life is now a life providing towards those that you love.

Is that too nuanced for everyone?   

I don't have time to drink, I spend all my free time on Mtn. proj. Braj!

Your beer is most certainly microfractured. Send it to me and I'll retire it for you in an eco-friendly manner.

Don Ferris III wrote:

Ted, do you think if you received 100% of your calories from Mountain Dew there would be no difference from lean meat and veggies?

climbing friend,

the "lean meat" clog your artery, cause atherosclerosis rising and wang limpening as the many years pass by

Long Ranger wrote:

You're profile says you're 23? I'm 37, so perhaps I have a little more perspective on the effects of alchohol and diet on the body over time. The effects of a bad diet/overindulging add up to become chronic issues. One week of eating/drinking doesn't really effect you long-term. 1,000 of those weeks does. Reversing those issues is hard. Developing as an athlete takes a long time commitment. Those two things are in opposition.

Not many people can perform in their late 30's as they did in their early 20's, without some changes in their diet, booze/drug intake, and life outlook. If you're not already at a level you want to attain, it makes sense to cut some crap out that's obviously hampering you. It'll make progression go faster - and guess what? There's a time limit to some of these types of goals: you get too old, or you break your body too badly, or you get a real job, or you fall in love with someone and you're life is now a life providing towards those that you love.

Is that too nuanced for everyone?   

Oh great the “I’m older than you so I know better” guy. I know a guy who started climbing in his mid 30s and sent 13+ in his late 50s drinking the whole time. Not that “single anecdata” guy is any better

I'm totally OK with you dismissing me - what do I know?

Check out all the videos and links I've shared, and yeah: make your own conclusions.

Jaren Watson wrote:

Having been addicted to both, I’d say alcohol dependency is less cankerous to the soul.

I agree with that, though both are soul suckers. 

If you want to climb 5.12, eliminate sex. There are hundreds of case studies all around you.
And DSB* is vital to hard sending.

*Deadly Sperm Buildup

Brother Numsie wrote: If you want to climb 5.12, eliminate sex. There are hundreds of case studies all around you.
And DSB* is vital to hard sending.

*Deadly Sperm Buildup

Sex is an excellent core/tricep/shoulder workout.  Sex helps climbing, and climbing helps sex.  Each of them transfer well in the confidence department, as well.

I didn't catch the OP's age.

That's the biggest factor imo.

At 25 or 30, I could have 3 beers every night and climb 5.12 4 days of the week and ride back to back centuries on the other days.

At 40, I notice a huge drop in performance. Lower energy, worse skin, and worst of all, I wake up with a hangover headache from 1 beer now, 2 if it's something weak like Corona or if I have one in the afternoon and only one at night.

I still have a drink many nights every week. My physiology can't handle it well anymore. Ill probably end up only drinking with friends and during holidays soon enough, despite my love of beer.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: I didn't catch the OP's age.

That's the biggest factor imo.

At 25 or 30, I could have 3 beers every night and climb 5.12 4 days of the week and ride back to back centuries on the other days.

At 40, I notice a huge drop in performance. Lower energy, worse skin, and worst of all, I wake up with a hangover headache from 1 beer now, 2 if it's something weak like Corona or if I have one in the afternoon and only one at night.

I still have a drink many nights every week. My physiology can't handle it well anymore. Ill probably end up only drinking with friends and during holidays soon enough, despite my love of beer.

You're really giving me something to look forward too. Maybe I should just quit now while I'm a head...beer that is. I'll switch to just whiskey and devils lettuce.

I'm 29.

After this discussion and my own self reflection, I think that the fact that I've gone back to school is more limiting than my drinking. But, fuck it. I'll cut back. Ya''ll are crazy, not the best at online debating, with or without reliable links, but you guys are great! Thanks! Be excellent to each other!

Mike Mellenthin wrote:

My profile says correctly that I'm 30.

I apologize. I mistakenly was looking at the wrong profile.

"When alcohol is consumed, it’s broken down into acetate—which is similar to vinegar. The body burns acetate before any other stored energy in the body. In other words, it thrives on the alcohol instead of any excess fat you might be working towards reducing. The body prefers acetate to sugar and fat. In other words, your body will cling to the treats you had earlier in the day or week and thrive on the alcohol. That’s why plateaus are so common for those who drink and are working towards fat loss."