Multipitch Rappel

just make sure you yell rope a little before it starts coming down.  i hate it when the folks above me don't let us know and we get pummelled....

Better than clove-hitching the midpoint and lots better than a figure-8, which might be very hard to undo, is the Stone Knot, http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/techtips/the-stone-knot-a-canyoneering-secret-weapon/

Having the second rapeller pre-rig is another way to fix the rope.

Aside: if the rope fixed then only one strand need be knotted.

New question regarding single strand rappels....if I went full grigri and left my ATC on the ground, I should be able to bail/rappel by using a biner block or method rGold provided? Reasoning behind this is having an assisted locking device while belaying from above. The ATC guide just seems complicated when lowering and though I intend to learn it, my brother feels safer following on a Grigri atleast for now. He's one of my main partners so I would like to plan for that. On the few sport multipitch Ive always just brought my ATC along but was wondering if I can ditch it and just go with the Grigri?

P.S. Not trying to start the Grigri vs ATC debate.  Im pretty fluent with both and understand that both have advantages and disadvantages.  I just want to know if the grigri camp are leaving their ATC on the ground and any methods/technique

Also thanks for all great information so far! The well thought out responses are really apreciated!

Ryan U. wrote: New question regarding single strand rappels....if I went full grigri and left my ATC on the ground, I should be able to bail/rappel by using a biner block or method rGold provided? Reasoning behind this is having an assisted locking device while belaying from above. The ATC guide just seems complicated when lowering and though I intend to learn it, my brother feels safer following on a Grigri atleast for now. He's one of my main partners so I would like to plan for that. On the few sport multipitch Ive always just brought my ATC along but was wondering if I can ditch it and just go with the Grigri?

P.S. Not trying to start the Grigri vs ATC debate.  Im pretty fluent with both and understand that both have advantages and disadvantages.  I just want to know if the grigri camp are leaving their ATC on the ground and any methods/technique

Also thanks for all great information so far! The well thought out responses are really apreciated!

This could be its own thread. I climb with a Gri pretty much all the time but still bring my ATC for the descent. I find it pretty advantageous to have 2 devices so I can pre-rig the rap down by the time the follower reaches the belay.  

No problem rapping with a gri using a biner block or reepshnur.  With a Stone knot, you can't retrieve your rope.  

But it would require you to block the rope somehow, which I would think would become a pain if you're the only one who isn't prepared to rap on both strands.

Andrew Hess wrote: But it would require you to block the rope somehow, which I would think would become a pain if you're the only one who isn't prepared to rap on both strands.

It takes about 5 seconds to block the rope.  And it doesn't prevent anybody from doing a rap with both stands.

Disadvantage:  a bit harder to pull the rope and slightly higher chance of a stuck rope but if you use an overhand on a bight, it has a "flat side" similar to EDK.

Ryan U. wrote: New question regarding single strand rappels....if I went full grigri and left my ATC on the ground, I should be able to bail/rappel by using a biner block or method rGold provided? Reasoning behind this is having an assisted locking device while belaying from above. The ATC guide just seems complicated when lowering and though I intend to learn it, my brother feels safer following on a Grigri atleast for now. He's one of my main partners so I would like to plan for that. On the few sport multipitch Ive always just brought my ATC along but was wondering if I can ditch it and just go with the Grigri?

P.S. Not trying to start the Grigri vs ATC debate.  Im pretty fluent with both and understand that both have advantages and disadvantages.  I just want to know if the grigri camp are leaving their ATC on the ground and any methods/technique

Also thanks for all great information so far! The well thought out responses are really apreciated!

I typically leave the ATC on the ground in favor of the gri.  For raps, I will block the rope & go first as most partners carry an ATC - they just pull the rope block before rapping.  If my partner has a gri gri as well, we will leave the block in, simul-rap, or even lower the first and have them counterweight the rappelling second...all depends on the party/situation.

NathanC wrote: I typically leave the ATC on the ground in favor of the gri.  For raps, I will block the rope & go first as most partners carry an ATC - they just pull the rope block before rapping.  If my partner has a gri gri as well, we will leave the block in, simul-rap, or even lower the first and have them counterweight the rappelling second...all depends on the party/situation.

Love this. Been doing this quite a bit recently with the variation of having #1 rap down w/ a Gri from a clove hitch to the masterpoint. This allows #2 to thread the rope through the anchors, and transition to their rappel while #1 is descending.
   

Jeremy Bauman wrote: Love this. Been doing this quite a bit recently with the variation of having #1 rap down w/ a Gri from a clove hitch to the masterpoint. This allows #2 to thread the rope through the anchors, and transition to their rappel while #1 is descending.

That’s a clever variation, going to play with that system next time I’m out.  Thanks for sharing!

Jeremy Bauman wrote: Love this. Been doing this quite a bit recently with the variation of having #1 rap down w/ a Gri from a clove hitch to the masterpoint. This allows #2 to thread the rope through the anchors, and transition to their rappel while #1 is descending.
   

Question: how is the Grivel biner attached to your rappel tether? It doesn't look as if it's securely attached to the sling.

Andrew Hess wrote:

Question: how is the Grivel biner attached to your rappel tether? It doesn't look as if it's securely attached to the sling.

Good catch.  That doesn't look kosher.  There appears to be a locker on the end of the sling clipped to nothing.  If he clipped it back to his belay loop, it would work.  But, this still leaves him open to failure if he uses that locker to tether into subsequent anchors.   Better to have the grivel "inside" the sling below and above the knot making that sling redundant when the locker is attached back to the belay loop.  

Andrew Hess wrote:

Question: how is the Grivel biner attached to your rappel tether? It doesn't look as if it's securely attached to the sling.

Its a 120cm Dyneema sling basket hitched to my tie-in points with either a fig-8 or overhand tied in the middle. The biner for my belay device is clipped through 2 strands below the knot making it redundant (difficult to see in the photo). You can see the rest of the tether dangling down -- with the biner locked in the unlikely event that the fig-8 started to roll.

Greg D Wrote: Good catch.  That doesn't look kosher.  There appears to be a locker on the end of the sling clipped to nothing.  If he clipped it back to his belay loop, it would work.  But, this still leaves him open to failure if he uses that locker to tether into subsequent anchors.   Better to have the grivel "inside" the sling below and above the knot making that sling redundant when the locker is attached back to the belay loop.  

The system employed in this photo has redundancy all the way to the biner when rappelling and tethering into the next anchor.

I would think we would see 4 strands of the sling if it is basket hitched.  Only 2 are visible.  Do you mean girth?

Greg D wrote: I would think we would see 4 strands of the sling if it is basket hitched.  Only 2 are visible.  Do you mean girth?

No. It was basket hitched. The angle of the photo is hiding 2 of the strands =).