Sasha article on body image

And you wonder why we have such abysmal mental health care in this country...  as well illustrated in this thread, people apparently have to meet a societal standard of whether they _deserve_ to possess their mental illness or not.

reboot wrote:

You mean the irony of heavily market one's appearance on one hand and preach about body acceptance on the other?

Nope, I meant the irony as I described it. Read my whole post instead of quoting a fragment of it and that would probably be more clear to you. 

Strong women are sexy. Emotionally and physically. Shape, irrelevant. 

The displays of abject ignorance in this thread is staggering   

I think it’s about that time again:

reboot wrote:

Well let me be crystal clear to you then: that was a rhetorical question. If you are going to evaluate whether the responses are appropriate, then you should examine the action first. My question to you was meant to express my opinion on the action. As to your point, while beauty is subjective, one CAN objectively evaluate whether someone fits the current beauty standard (up to a point) and say yeah, you don't have it that bad, because, isn't this whole thing about the degree and pervasiveness of body image issue for women? Or do you deny that men do not suffer this at all?

Who said men didn't suffer this? If you're going to direct a comment to me, at least constrain yourself to arguing against points I've actually made.

I suspect I'm too tired to do this with the patience and restraint required, so I'm going to try this once and then try to leave it for today. That is a reflection of my own limitations right now and not a value judgment on whatever you or anyone else says next.

The problem being discussed, or at least a large part of it, is societal or male expectations and standards for women's bodies, and the value judgments made based on how women do or do not fit those expectations.

reboot wrote:

Doesn't mean she's 1) sincere (just because it is a serious issue) and 2) her insecurity is well founded, and IMO, entirely reasonable to not take it seriously.

Yep, so:

You're basically saying that your evaluation (yes subjective) of her looks and your value judgment of what those looks mean carries more weight in terms of how she feels than how she is actually telling you she feels.

caughtinside wrote: I think this one feels weird because Sasha is, quite literally, a model. She makes her living in front of the camera. Takes a lot of selfies.  Seems to make good money at it.  

I'm not saying her feelings are invalid. But it feels kind of like when Gwyneth Paltrow said that being paid many millions of dollars to work for 3 months straight on a movie was a harder career path for balancing family than 50 hours a week in an office.  Feels a little out of touch. 

False.  Sasha DiGiulian is a professional rock climber, most notable for hard First Female Ascents (make of that what you will) such as Pure Imagination (14c/d).  Her achievements have waned recently, as happens with everyone, and she’s also branched out into multipitch and trad, but she still climbs harder than 90% and anyone on this thread.  She is very good at marketing herself and seems to have built a niche out of sharing the climbing lifestyle (training, traveling, etc), but to call her a “model” is insulting.

reboot wrote:

Deleted a comment you fully quoted so I can reply: find one place I (not the other posters) actually personally opinionated SD's looks. I did opinionate that SD markets herself more as a model than a climber.

14a onsight, 14d redpoint, V10 flash... We're not exactly talking Sierra Blair-Coyle here...  And you don't have to dip too far into a lot of male pro climber's social media output to find a preponderance of vapid, vain, and superficial image-based content... it doesn't seem like pandering because the audience for climbing advertisements and sponsor output has been primarily male until not too long ago.  So when we see a Sportiva ad with Joe Kinder (good but not the best) shirtless and ripped, we think nothing of it.  But when a lot of people see SDG (good but not the best) in a similar ad with a pink sports bra, it seems like she (or the company) is taking advantage of her looks rather than talent.  It's a double standard that I certainly hope will subside with the increasing movement towards gender parity in climbing (...a time when all climbers get ruthlessly pandered to by venal ad agencies regardless of gender!).

But more to the point: she basically said "I suffer from body dysmorphia", to which several people essentially responded "you shouldn't" or "I don't care", to wit "I deem your mental illness invalid", because she is considered by many to be traditionally attractive. Unfortunately, that's not how these body image pathologies work.

I'm a totally ugly bastard.

Sometimes the people who struggle don't look like they are struggling at all.

It seems popular to say things along the lines of "be kind, everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about"... But let's start putting asterisks on it, shall we? There is apparently a list of people who have it made, and shouldn't feel entitled to worries, or expect kindness from strangers when they speak out about it...

What did Kate Spade had to struggle with? The woman had it made, her name was synonymous with a fancy handbag, for gods sake. Wealthy, successful, good looking... Oh, she has committed suicide? "Ok people, remember, be kind, help others, yada-yada, because you never know what demons people are fighting..."

What did Anthony Bourdain have to worry about? Famous, gets to travel around the world, really, the guy has it made! Ops, maybe he had problems, too. Let's share the next round of "OMG, I'm so saddened to hear the news today! Devastated! I loved watching his show!yadda-yadda..."

What does Sasha Digulian have to worry about? Young, good looking, makes money from climbing, don't we all wish we had it made as well as she has? Plus, she is still alive! Let's say mean things about her, because clearly she wouldn't know what worry or struggle is, even if it hit her in the face! 

So what's the point at which people are not allowed others's empathy?

Do the very poor outside the US look at the US and think, "What do THEY have to worry about?", and cite how US citizens have it so good? I guess that makes all my problems completely fabricated?

Or, do we realize that success/money/power doesn't stop someone from having to deal with emotional and mental issues? That's why we're "shocked" that seemingly successful people can commit suicide, or become drug addicts, or find a death in the family leads them into a deep depression.

People who've "made" it? They're still human.

Yep. Lots of people just hide it well.  Maybe they don't say anything for fear of looking weak, or they don't want to trouble ther friends and family, or don't think there's another person that can relate, or a million other possibilities. 

Some people work their way out of the hole and some can't.  Money and looks and the things we've been told should make us happy really don't on their own. Sucks. The mountains and climbing help though, and are great therapy. 

Long Ranger wrote:That's why we're "shocked" that seemingly successful people can commit suicide, or become drug addicts, or find a death in the family leads them into a deep depression.

Long Ranger wrote: So what's the point at which people are not allowed others's empathy?

Do the very poor outside the US look at the US and think, "What do THEY have to worry about?", and cite how US citizens have it so good? I guess that makes all my problems completely fabricated?

Or, do we realize that success/money/power doesn't stop someone from having to deal with emotional and mental issues? That's why we're "shocked" that seemingly successful people can commit suicide, or become drug addicts, or find a death in the family leads them into a deep depression.

People who've "made" it? They're still human.

If anything money probably makes it worst. People without money have a goal in life to try to become rich and successful thinking it will solve all their problems. However when someone becomes rich and successful and realize all their problems aren't going away they have nowhere else to go and end up killing themselves.

Never read a less interesting article.

This thread as a metaphor for America: infatuated with problems, zero interest in solving problems.  

tim wrote: Never read a less interesting article.

White Male Privilege in a Nutshell: "Why don't people only write things I like and not stuff that makes me uncomfortable???"

BTW those pants in your pictures make your butt look big, timmy.

reboot wrote
If someone markets one's self (that's tangential to the ostensible role) and then talks about the resulting insecurity in the context of a larger problem, I'd consider that pure hypocrisy. 

In no way is this hypocrisy. Insecurities stem from applying an external standard (even if you disagree with the societal "beauty" you still know what it is) to yourself, in the privacy of your own mind. We are all our own harshest critics. It may be exacerbated by your career, but it is NOT a result of it.

reboot wrote:
If someone has unfound fear about themselves and speak about it in the context of a larger problem, I'd find it odd and out of touch, but whatever.

Other people have addressed the sentiment expressed in the "unfounded" part of this comment so I'll leave that alone.

But I would like to note that the ability to communicate our internal world to others and to receive an empathetic response is one of my favorite parts about being a human. So no, I don't find it "odd and out of touch" at all.