Picking up climber/hiker hitchhikers

wivanoff wrote:

So, did you go? How did it turn out? Were you murdered?

Warning, this is my ghost posting...

No, I didn't go. I would have liked to, and I wasn't worried about being murdered. But i felt that it would have majorly soured the rest of the trip with the guy I was traveling with, and in practical terms it wasn't worth it. I messaged the other guy and made an excuse.

One other thing that people kind of overlook.

It doesn't really matter what your gender, size, skills and tools are. If you're driving a vehicle with a passenger, that passenger can do as they please. They control that situation.

I'm a decent sized guy and I carry a self defense tool with me at all times. If I'm driving with a much smaller person and they suddenly have real intent to harm me, I'm getting hurt. Maybe I can slow the car and defend myself before I'm killed but 10 out of 10 times I'm getting badly injured. If you think you'd do better in a driver w/ passenger scenario, youre fooling yourself

Jeffrey K wrote: One other thing that people kind of overlook.

It doesn't really matter what your gender, size, skills and tools are. If you're driving a vehicle with a passenger, that passenger can do as they please. They control that situation.

I'm a decent sized guy and I carry a self defense tool with me at all times. If I'm driving with a much smaller person and they suddenly have real intent to harm me, I'm getting hurt. Maybe I can slow the car and defend myself before I'm killed but 10 out of 10 times I'm getting badly injured. If you think you'd do better in a driver w/ passenger scenario, youre fooling yourself

This is the second time you've said that gender doesn't matter. A woman is much more likely to be sexually assaulted than a man. Doesn't that matter?

FrankPS wrote:

This is the second time you've said that gender doesn't matter. A woman is much more likely to be sexually assaulted than a man. Doesn't that matter?

Women are definitely at higher risk than men, absolutely. 

My point is more that no one should be picking up strangers alone without understanding the grave risk it puts them in. If we're talking odds, yes, women have a much higher chance of being targeted by a predator.

Jeffrey K wrote:

Women are definitely at higher risk than men, absolutely. 

My point is more that no one should be picking up strangers alone without understanding the grave risk it puts them in. If we're talking odds, yes, women have a much higher chance of being targeted by a predator.

Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

Dana Bartlett wrote: Being 6 feet whatever, weighing such and such an amount?
Carrying a tool for self-defense?
Getting a good sense about someone?
He/she seems normal?
He/she looks to be a climber?

Insert photo of Jeffrey Dahmer here:

This actually crossed my mind the other day. I haven't yet picked up a hitchhiker, mostly because the ones I see are in town, and are mostly homeless. I feel like I would be more inclined to pick up a climber or a backpacker, but always change my mind in the moment. 

I like to check out the hitchhiker's supplies.  Skis or a paddle, or a climbing helmet or shoes on the outside of their pack, probably cool.  An empty gallon milk/water jug hanging off the pack is definitely a no-go.  My general rule is to pull up, doors locked and roll down the window, and ask 'where are you headed?'  If they have a specific destination and I feel a good vibe, probably ok.  If they have any sort of a 'I'm not sure, where are you headed' reply... then I wish them well and keep on driving.  Any reasonable hitches will understand if you not wanting to give them a lift.

People keep bringing up not wanting to pick up the homeless or those who don’t appear right.

The man who murdered my sister’s friend was neither homeless nor mentally ill “looking”. Physical appearance does not necessary have anything to do with safety

Occasionally I hitch hike. Like when I'm doing a shuttle after kayaking or climbing. Skiing I hitch hike quite a bit. I'm always very careful who's vehicle I get in. There are some extremely weird people who stop to pick up hitch hikers too!

I pick up hitchhikers if there's an obvious reason why they're hitchhiking and and everything about their image is congruous. Say someone hitchhiking with skis in a ski town on the road to the resort, or perhaps on the other side of the mountain from the resort base, implying they did a backcountry line, or anyone with appropriate gear in a very heavily used backcountry area, or an obvious AT hiker at an AT trailhead, clearly needing a ride to a grocery store or something. And I'm much more open to picking up older people of either sex, even if they don't fall under the above.

​I have picked up homeless people, because they were elderly, and I was concerned for them. 

I’ve hitchiked a fair amount over the years. Sometimes I pick up sketchy hitchhikers. I think alpine climbing is way more dangerous.

Seems like when picking up hitchhikers, folks avoid helping people that look like they need help getting somewhere, and only help those who are playing. Which, I get.

ryan albery wrote: An empty gallon milk/water jug hanging off the pack is definitely a no-go.

Honest question, why is an empty water jug a no-go?

Adrienne DiRosario wrote: People keep bringing up not wanting to pick up the homeless or those who don’t appear right.

The man who murdered my sister’s friend was neither homeless nor mentally ill “looking”. Physical appearance does not necessary have anything to do with safety

Adrienne, I am sorry about your sister's friend. Things like that do happen. But they are very rare. So the question is, how much fear should we live in, based on something that is very very low probability, and how much should that fear inform our decisions? Not picking up hitchhikers when you are driving alone is an easy solution, I'm going with that. but where is the line?

Do you never go on dates with people you meet online? The online dating thing is pretty much normal now. And yes, sure, you should take reasonable precautions, meet up with a guy at a coffee shop, or a cafe for lunch, don't go to his house to meet him for the first time, that sort of thing... But a truly determined psychopath could easily fool you, appear normal and benign in that first coffee shop meeting, and then do some horrible things to you when you eventually agree to meet him in a more private setting.

Do you never respond to, or post, in partner search for climbing partners? Because you would be meeting them for climbing, so much unknown, so much danger... I mean, sure, you could just never ask or agree to meet up random people from the MP or anywhere else. But FWIW, the worst random climbing partners I have ever climbed with were all from the local gym, and not the "random" people I connected with online. (Again, there are some precautions you can take, research you can do, but at the end of the day...)

I have and will continue to give rides to non-sketchy climbers and hikers.  I am appreciative of the handful of rides I have received over the years and am happy to return the favor (minus for the Le Pen supporting French hiker in Zion).  Much of the irrational fear is based on edge cases.

I rarely pick up hitchhikers as a woman, but I have made exceptions about 3 times.

1. Once I was driving through South Lake Tahoe alone and saw a guy with a backpacker's set-up thumbing on the sidewalk. I actually turned around to pick him up because I could imagine myself in the same position in a parallel universe. He was a PCT hiker and needed a ride to Echo Summit. He bought me ice cream as a thank you. Luckily I caught him post-shower clean-up day (which is why he was in the middle of town).

2. Once I stuffed 3 people in my packed car in Zion. That's sort of a duh.

3. The strangest and funniest one was while in Vegas. I had come for a weekend-long music festival with a friend. He ended up bailing a day early because he was in the middle of a divorce and they were trying to sell their house. I had no plans to leave early, so I headed out to the venue alone the next day. I stopped for gas. A young man was standing at the corner of the convenience store outside, forlornly and hopelessly calling out the name of the event in hopes of scoring a ride. At first I turned my gaze away but while waiting for the gas to pump, I decided to change my mind. I told him I could give him a lift. The transformation of his expression still stays with me over a decade later. It was like happiness mixed with disbelief. Turns out he had a buddy with him as well; they had come down from Michigan to see the concerts but did not realize how far the venue was from their hotel. They had been trying to find a ride for over 2 hours at that point. I had thought to put them in the bed of my truck but then felt like a jerk, so they got in the cab with me.

They wanted to go to breakfast and told me they would pay. So together we went and had a sit-down breakfast. While driving there, my mom called me. I told them to stay quiet and then chatted with her about how things were going - without mentioning there were 2 strange young men in my car with me. After breakfast, we went to the all-day music festival together and spent the day together, even taking pictures, etc. I dropped them off at their hotel that night and we exchanged email addresses. I sent pics via email later and we had a brief friendly exchange and then I never talked with them again. It was actually a great time.

Lena chita wrote:

Adrienne, I am sorry about your sister's friend. Things like that do happen. But they are very rare. So the question is, how much fear should we live in, based on something that is very very low probability, and how much should that fear inform our decisions? Not picking up hitchhikers when you are driving alone is an easy solution, I'm going with that. but where is the line?

I think Adrienne makes an important point. This whole "sense of someone" or "carrying a climbing helmet" debate is a little scary. Predators are often very good at disguising their behavior and that really gets overlooked. 

If people are comfortable picking up hitchhikers, that's their call to make. But it's no safer picking up someone that's well dressed or has a nice smile or tells a good joke. 

Jeffrey K wrote:

I think Adrienne makes an important point. This whole "sense of someone" or "carrying a climbing helmet" debate is a little scary. Predators are often very good at disguising their behavior and that really gets overlooked. 

If people are comfortable picking up hitchhikers, that's their call to make. But it's no safer picking up someone that's well dressed or has a nice smile or tells a good joke. 

I agree that carrying a climbing helmet, or a nice smile/telling a good joke aren't, in themselves, good-enough criteria for distinguishing a nice person from a would-be murderer. 

But why single out hitchhikers? Is there evidence to support the hitchhikers as a group being more dangerous than people you meet in a bar? At the gym? At the crag? Is there a higher rate of murders/assaults committed by hitchhikers, as opposed to, say, mailmen or construction workers? 

We meet people all the time, and we don't know anything about them to begin with. And we choose to get to know them better based on that "sense of someone". And most of the time we are right. When someone is wrong, there is usually an unpleasant break up or a fight, and we sometimes might end up reading a gut wrenching story about boyfriend shooting his girlfriend. And he may not have ever hitchhiked in his entire life...

Jeffrey K wrote: My point is more that no one should be picking up strangers alone without understanding the grave risk it puts them in.

Citation?  Although limited in number, studies to date contradict your assertion.

fossana wrote:

Citation?  Although limited in number, studies to date contradict your assertion.

I mean, you show me a study that shows accurate statistics on sexual assault, I'll show you a study based on limited information. If we're talking death, sure, but what percentage of sexual assaults in a hitchhiking situation do you think are even reported? Let alone with convictions.

If you don't think hitchhiking or picking up hitchhikers as a woman is dangerous, I don't know what to say. I have no problem with people taking that risk, I just hope they're aware of it.

As far as risk with meeting/interacting with strangers, it definitely varies depending on environment as one factor. If you're alone in a car or someone else's apartment, etc.. you're extremely vulnerable. Meeting in a public restaurant or bar, less so. In the former scenario you have very few options if things go south; in the latter you have a few more options.

But in general it's a shitty world. Maybe that's just my rosy outlook and not accurate. I think the main point to OP is, if you don't feel good about it you have no reason to feel guilty whatsoever.