Opinions about followers on static line ropes ???

That would work for a 5 person group, I believe that you'd have to match the rappel ropes if using ones so skinny. was Jonathan Awerbuch wrote: If you really want to save weight, have your followers "simul second" where multiple climbers tie in to the same rope some 20 feet apart. One person ties in to the end, one ties in 20 feet up to a figure eight on a bight and lockers, and you could even have a third tie in even higher. Be warned this can be a total clusterfuck, slow, and a pain in the ass. But if you are carrying the gear really far, and the climbing is really easy, it could be ok.

The static line is rated at 2,700 lbs (my mistake 6mm not 5mm) and I have a couple Edelrid Mini Jul belay devices specifically for super skinny ropes ..... not sure why there is "risk of death"Stagg54 Taggart wrote: Carrying the bodies out would totally negate any weight savings.  You could leave them there, but that wouldn't be very leave no trace.

Ian Dibbs wrote: My mistake  ... my static line is actually 6mm but, weighs only 20g/meter,   1/2 the weight of a dynamic .... is rated at 2,700 lb, and I have the  Edelrid belay device for skinny ropes ....

https://www.edelrid.de/en/sports/brakingassist-tubers/micro-jul.html

Only rated to 6.9. 

My mistake  6mm line not 5mm, 5 is too skinny to rappel on    ...the 6mm is brand new, and rated at 2,500+ lbs ... ABB wrote: I'd have colorful words for someone offering me a 5mm static for following regardless of how slabby or straight the route. Beg, borrow or steal a proper rope (7.7mm or so, dynamic).

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Ian Dibbs wrote: My mistake  ... my static line is actually 6mm but, weighs only 20g/meter,   1/2 the weight of a dynamic .... is rated at 2,700 lb, and I have the  Edelrid belay device for skinny ropes ....

Wow!  What static line do you have that is rated 2700lb for 6mil?  

Are you sure you got these numbers right?  I cant find anything online that is that strong and light in 6mm.   Might want to check the specs again

Ian Dibbs wrote: My mistake  ... my static line is actually 6mm but, weighs only 20g/meter,   1/2 the weight of a dynamic .... is rated at 2,700 lb, and I have the  Edelrid belay device for skinny ropes ....

Seems unlikely I see 6mm static as being rated as 2200 lbf. The belay device you said is only good for down to 6.9 mm.

You clearly don't seem like you have enough experience to take out 3 other people to climb. But likely they aren't on this website reading what we have to say so the best of luck to you but you know...

ViperScale . wrote:

Seems unlikely I see 6mm static as being rated as 2200 lbf. The belay device you said is only good for down to 6.9 mm.

You clearly don't seem like you have enough experience to take out 3 other people to climb. But likely they aren't on this website reading what we have to say so the best of luck to you but you know...

I'm beginning to wonder what you fellas mean when you say static.

Spectra/dyneema = static?
Nylon = dynamic?  

rockklimber wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder what you fellas mean when you say static.

Spectra/dyneema = static?
Nylon = dynamic?  

Static Ropes. Unlike dynamic rope, a static rope does not stretch when bearing load. These ropes are intended to be used when building anchors, hauling loads, and rappelling. This type of rope should not be used as a climbing rope because it will not absorb any forces in a fall scenario and could lead to serious injury...

Nether of the 2 things you posted are ropes.

Welcome to the Internet ;) Static ropes stretch under load.

In caving we use what most people would  call "static" ropes. Whilst you certainly shouldn't lead on them, if you're in Europe you are probably using a rope meeting EN 1891 - which have to pass being able to survive a FF 0.3 with <6kN of force transmitted with a 100kg (A) or 80kg (B) weight. One might call such a rope semi-static, but very few people seem to. It's all "static", and small falls aren't necessarily the death sentence some would suggest.

Now if you're an American caver, you might have come across a the iconic pit rope - http://shop.pmirope.com/11mm-pit-rope-max-wear-183-meters-sr110wh183m
Complies to whatever CI 1801 says, is labeled static, yet it still stretches - "Elongation: 1.8% at 300 lbf | 3.6% at 600 lbf | 7.0% at 1000 lbf".

Now one might think this level of stretch is academic, but when you're at the bottom of a deep hole it most certainly is noticeable! And it is of critical importance in the short falls that may occur in caving.

Then there's the rope vs cord distinction, I was under the impression it depended on your regional standards - and typically diameter was the defining factor. I think in some parts of the world you would have to label 6mm as "cord", and not "rope".

Sadly all the standards are pay to view, so I'm going off my recollection from caving texts.

(Edit: Random story: Cavers leading on static, one dies as (inferred) croll cut rope - caves.org/section/vertical/…)

Jonathan Awerbuch wrote: If you really want to save weight, have your followers "simul second" where multiple climbers tie in to the same rope some 20 feet apart. One person ties in to the end, one ties in 20 feet up to a figure eight on a bight and lockers, and you could even have a third tie in even higher. Be warned this can be a total clusterfuck, slow, and a pain in the ass. But if you are carrying the gear really far, and the climbing is really easy, it could be ok.

This, then do a single strand rappel using the 6mm as a pull cord.

Or bring two full strength ropes with the 3rd and 4th climbers 20 ft apart on the last rope.

Ian Dibbs wrote: Looking for opinions on .... a 4 person climbing group on a moderate  "back country" slab climb, that goes mostly straight up without left or right wandering .... only the leader would use a dynamic rope, the  3 rd and 4 th would follow on 6 mm static lines, rated at 2,700 lb's, which are later used as a matched pair to rappel down using the Edelrid "micro" Jul rope belay device .... using the 2 statics could save 7-10  lbs of rope weight, do many (any) people do this   ???

- climb as two groups of two people

- each group has a single rope

- the two groups recombine for the rappel

Ian Dibbs wrote: Looking for opinions on .... a 4 person climbing group on a moderate  "back country" slab climb, that goes mostly straight up without left or right wandering .... only the leader would use a dynamic rope, the  3 rd and 4 th would follow on 6 mm static lines, rated at 2,700 lb's, which are later used as a matched pair to rappel down using the Edelrid "micro" Jul rope belay device .... using the 2 statics could save 7-10  lbs of rope weight, do many (any) people do this   ???

Do you already own 2-60mx6mm static lines or are you buying them specifically for this climb? Do all the climbers own a micro Jul or are they going to buy one for this climb and never use it again? How far in the backcountry is the climb? If you're going to climb in a group of 4 with only 1 leader and do it with 3 ropes (others have discussed how to do it with 2 which is reasonable on easy terrain) it's more efficient for the leader to trail 2 ropes. Leader belays climbers 2 and 3, while leader is re-racking and then leading the next pitch belayed by 2 the 3rd climber can belay 4 up. 

#1. never climb as a party of 4.
#2 with 4 people skimping on rope is stupid as you have pleanty of people to carry the ropes.
#3. if you insist on one leader and 3 followers in the party instead of 2 teams of 2 the following is the way to do it. double 8.1mm or simeler. guide mode belay with proper device.  leader uses twin/ doubble rope technique. one follower on red rope 2 followers on blue rope. the rope that has 2 followers on it must have the stronger climber at the bottom and the 3rd strongest climber other than the leader at the position 10ft above the  follower that is on the end of the rope. weakest climber gets their own rope.

Nick Goldsmith wrote: #1. never climb as a party of 4.
#2 with 4 people skimping on rope is stupid as you have pleanty of people to carry the ropes.
#3. if you insist on one leader and 3 followers in the party instead of 2 teams of 2 the following is the way to do it. double 8.1mm or simeler. guide mode belay with proper device.  leader uses twin/ doubble rope technique. one follower on red rope 2 followers on blue rope. the rope that has 2 followers on it must have the stronger climber at the bottom and the 3rd strongest climber other than the leader at the position 10ft above the  follower that is on the end of the rope. weakest climber gets their own rope.

We did 4 people with 2 ropes onetime. I lead every pitch and the second followed alone (never done multi-pitch). On the last rope we had the strongest climber (boulder who never had climbed multi-pitch) simlu with the final climber (climbed lots of multi-pitch but not as strong as the boulder who had not). We only had 2 ropes both 9mm + dynamic... but the final climber wasn't comfortable leading the climb.

that is pretty much what I was describeing. if you do end up with a party of 3 or 4 it is best that the strongest leader does all the leading. it becomes a time consumeing  PINTA to switch over to give someone else leads.   in short lead in blocks if more than one person wants to lead unless the climb is short enough that it does not matter.. 

ViperScale . wrote:

Static Ropes. Unlike dynamic rope, a static rope does not stretch when bearing load. These ropes are intended to be used when building anchors, hauling loads, and rappelling. This type of rope should not be used as a climbing rope because it will not absorb any forces in a fall scenario and could lead to serious injury...

Nether of the 2 things you posted are ropes.

Maybe you should reread what I wrote. 

I didnt ask for an explanation of static or dynamic.  What I was wondering was if the OP understood the difference.

And I never stated the 2 things I posted were ropes.  But they are well known as materials which are used in rope and cord.  

Look OP gonna put this as simply as I can: If you don't know what you are doing don't consult the mighty Magic 8-Ball of the Interwebs for the answer.

The advantages of ropes that can do double duty as back up single lead lines in the Alpine and have more cutting resistance (particularly when you are a newbie) more than out weighs any weight savings. Right off that you are considering this "adventure" on top of that with a party of four makes it clear you're gonna die.

Ian Dibbs wrote:  a 4 person climbing group...

Sounds like unnecessary masochism...

OP  See from your to do list some where in Quebec.  The 6mm tag is it the Esprit Personal Escape produced in Canada?  This is the Tag line I use and was originally rated 3000Lbs. and then a few years later dropped to 2700LBs.  Have often brought up a third with it keeping them tight as it is basically a top rope, not much slack in the system.  Skinny but strong.

Healyje wrote: Sounds like unnecessary masochism...

If you have one leader and 3 non-leaders that want to get on a multipitch climb then it's an unnecessary evil.  I did it once about 15yrs ago with 2 noobs and a girl who had followed a few climbs with me.  It went smooth but is not recommended.  

Apparently I forgot about it when asked 10yrs later to guide a group of 4 followers from Brazil for a couple of days in RR.  Also, not recommended.