BD / Joe Kinder / ???

Long Ranger wrote:

I think Fugazi was a pretty positive influence on to treat women like shit. Personally. 

For those of us who know who co-wrote that song, this thread has come full circle in awesomeness.

reboot wrote:

And long after their image of a hero have moved on to Margo Hayes or the next strong female climber, the routes Joe developed and the bolts he put in will still be there for them to actually climb on.

Got it.

It's not an either-or. 

Locals Only wrote:

HELL YEAH HAMISH AND NATE ITS IMPORTANT THAT YOU SHOW SOME RESPECT AND PAY HOMEAGES TO THOSE OF US WHO, FOR REASONS UNKNOWN AND ALMOST CERTAINLY ARBITRARY, DESERVE IT AND BY THE WAY I GREW HERE YOU FLEW HERE, NAWMSAYIN?  

Señor Arroz wrote:

It's not an either-or. 

No, but celebrity influence, especially in this day & age, is nothing compared to real, substantive contribution. One directly benefits the actor, and plenty are all to happy to be the replacement, the other takes a lot of behind the scene effort that few are willing to contribute and is often pretty thankless.

Yeah sorry sentence structure problems on my end.

reboot wrote:

And long after their image of a hero have moved on to Margo Hayes or the next strong female climber, the routes Joe developed and the bolts he put in will still be there for them to actually climb on.

Well, not those red heads he halfassedly put in at the RRG. 

To Kinder's credit, he has literally bolted hundreds of high quality routes and has sent 15b on U.S. soil...So kind of a big deal.

the schmuck wrote: To Kinder's credit, he has literally bolted hundreds of high quality routes and has sent 15b on U.S. soil...So kind of a big deal.

Oh.

Ok.

Seems pretty super cereal, lol.

Or is he the poster child for one's hero's feet being made of clay?

At the end of the day, the climbing part is a whole lot less important than the content of one's character, isn't it?

I will give this man the benefit of the doubt and assume he only let the garden variety of misogyny leak out a little bit and go too far and otherwise he's good people.

But his sponsors gotta do what they gotta do in this day of #metoo, as well they should.

If his instagram was used to make fun of other male climbers as well then I don't understand how this became about sexism and men vs. women. Isn't this more clearly a case of him just being a shitty person in general and a terrible and unfunny troll?

reboot wrote:

No, but celebrity influence, especially in this day & age, is nothing compared to real, substantive contribution. One directly benefits the actor, and plenty are all to happy to be the replacement, the other takes a lot of behind the scene effort that few are willing to contribute and is often pretty thankless.

You think that Joe Kinder will stop bolting sport climbs because his BD sponsorship was cut? That doesn't seem to follow. I know several dedicated route bolters who've put up hundreds of great sport routes. None of them are sponsored professional climbers. Hopefully JK will continue devoting himself to that going forward, even if he's working a day job like the people I know. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

You think that Joe Kinder will stop bolting sport climbs because his BD sponsorship was cut? That doesn't seem to follow. I know several dedicated route bolters who've put up hundreds of great sport routes. None of them are sponsored professional climbers. Hopefully JK will continue devoting himself to that going forward, even if he's working a day job like the people I know. 

What part of my comment made you think I was talking about whether someone will continue contributing w/o sponsorship? You are the one comparing superficial contribution of being a celebrity (calling it contribution is too generous, it's merely influence) to something substantive (half ass job or otherwise). 

I know a number of very dedicated route developers too, and they've contributed significantly to the community, but for the most part, their routes are not at the very high end of the spectrum (though one did bolt a fairly high end route as an open project and got a lot of undeserving flak on MP), which all those young-lings w/ aspiration of becoming the next SD will need to get there.

hey guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuise

hey broooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

wuts yer contribuuuuution mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn?????

Leonard Cohen put it this way:

If you are the Light give me a light buddy

There is always the French Foreign Legion, Joe.

If things go really bad for Joe, he can always get a Climb X sponsorship.
http://www.climbxgear.com/2011kinder.aspx

reboot wrote:

What part of my comment made you think I was talking about whether someone will continue contributing w/o sponsorship? You are the one comparing superficial contribution of being a celebrity (calling it contribution is too generous, it's merely influence) to something substantive (half ass job or otherwise). 

I know a number of very dedicated route developers too, and they've contributed significantly to the community, but for the most part, their routes are not at the very high end of the spectrum (though one did bolt a fairly high end route as an open project and got a lot of undeserving flak on MP), which all those young-lings w/ aspiration of becoming the next SD will need to get there.

I guess my real question is why Joe's good deeds or your perception that Sasha is some sort of climbing dilettante have any relevance to the discussion of his firing? I've known plenty of good people who made stupid mistakes and paid the consequences. This seems to fall firmly into that category. Whether you like his victim or not is really irrelevant. 

I think he probably read the "Toxic Masculinity in the Mountains" thread and that caused him to act out ....and this is the inevitable result of that poison lol.

El Gato wrote: When you keep getting pelted with Shit Balls, you gotta get a Shit Bat.

Joe just opened up Pandora’s shit-box for sure.

Señor Arroz wrote:

You think that Joe Kinder will stop bolting sport climbs because his BD sponsorship was cut? 

In everywhere but CO, yes.

As the oldest living climber this is the strangest thing I've ever seen.