Love of climbing, disdain for climbers.

It’s because you were at a sport crag. Of the rock disciples, boulderers are the nicest, followed by tradies. Sport climbers are pretentious blowhards.

<insert mischievous grin emoji>

From trad to sport, the conversion was not easy. Of course the RRG attracts gym climbers from 1000 miles in each direction. The Gunks may be popular but I dont meet too many gym travelers there compared to the RRG. Its pretty much standard to meet a ton of narcissists at destination sport crags(Indian creek included) on weekends and holidays IMO. 

"I think climbers are very quick to assume you're weaker than them, inexperienced, annoying, dangerous, gonna be clogging up a classic route, etc."

Seriously?  Where do you people climb?   My time in the climbing community has been amazing.  I meet people every single day that blow my mind with their kindness and open soul.

To the OP-   Your mistake was going to the sport area.   Trad at the Red is awesome, more secluded, and less of a scene.  The people you encountered were likely 18-22 years old, so take them with a grain of salt.  

I've gotten equally annoyed with conversations Ive overheard, or things climbers have said directly to me.. However, I've gone out with friends, and just been so stoked on the session and our group that when i look back, I know things I said must have made me sound like a total douche. Some of the incidences you described sounds pretty unbearable, but its also worth keeping in mind that sometimes people get carried away in good fun. Even if someone is being super arrogant about their climbing, if they're still having fun and not being negative to others, I find it easy to just tune out - and just be happy people are getting outside.

sport climbers spraying... Who would have thought?

Seth Cohen wrote: These are good examples of situations where you get to decide how annoyed you want to be.

Fully agree with that, well said.

But yes I hear you too. Groups of climber can be annoying attitude-wise. To me it's mostly a matter of hanging around attitudes you like and just letting what you don't like slide.

Although the other part of that I think is also to recognize that in at least some cases, things may not mean the same thing to different people. I've used the warm-up phrase or variations of it a couple of times when describing a climb. In fact I did that relatively often, because:

• As I'm getting older (and wiser) I pay more attention to warming up properly. It's so good I can't believe I was that dumb for that long about it. I truly care about that.
• That means that litteraly every day I climb, I'm going spend at least 2-3 climbs on what is warm-up difficulties (and climbing styles, ideally).
• To me a good warm-up is relatively sustained and even in difficulty, doesn't have dangerous moves (like super hard crimps, monos, fully extended shoulder moves, etc.). It should also be fairly long. It can be a good climb (read fun climb), but it doesn't have to be and it doesn't have to be memorable.
• So to me, if I say 'that's a good warmup' it's litterally what I'm trying to say. By definition it is easier than other stuff I'm going to be climbing (it's part of the selection process), but it also means a lot more than that.

So, if I had climbing at your crag that day, it may have been me you'd have heard saying that and you would (judging by your post) totally have misread me...

I blame the close proximity to Ohio.

JRZane wrote: Im relatively new to climbing (entering year 4) 

This makes you an expert on MP. You might fit in with others if you try reinventing the tie in knot and critiquing anchors.

In the Red part of the standard rack is a 12" ruler for dick measuring contests. It says so right in the guidebook next to the "70m rope mandatory" and "25 shiny quickdraws".

Climb Jungle Beat next time you're down there.

Liking something and liking the people who do something are two very different things.

I just want to amble up some easy trad line without having to queue behind some twit, smelling in the air the nearby excrement of a past twit, while listening to another twit lecturing me about how I'm going to die, while some other twit rains rocks and dropped gear down on me, whilst some other other twit breaks my car window to steal all my shit.

Hell I don't even like people watching me. I'm fighting my own battle up here, this isn't an exhibition, go watch something else!

Remote area, non-ideal weather, no bolts , and thus no people, are the best days out.

Franck Vee wrote:

Fully agree with that, well said.

But yes I hear you too. Groups of climber can be annoying attitude-wise. To me it's mostly a matter of hanging around attitudes you like and just letting what you don't like slide.

Although the other part of that I think is also to recognize that in at least some cases, things may not mean the same thing to different people. I've used the warm-up phrase or variations of it a couple of times when describing a climb. In fact I did that relatively often, because:

• As I'm getting older (and wiser) I pay more attention to warming up properly. It's so good I can't believe I was that dumb for that long about it. I truly care about that.
• That means that litteraly every day I climb, I'm going spend at least 2-3 climbs on what is warm-up difficulties (and climbing styles, ideally).
• To me a good warm-up is relatively sustained and even in difficulty, doesn't have dangerous moves (like super hard crimps, monos, fully extended shoulder moves, etc.). It should also be fairly long. It can be a good climb (read fun climb), but it doesn't have to be and it doesn't have to be memorable.
• So to me, if I say 'that's a good warmup' it's litterally what I'm trying to say. By definition it is easier than other stuff I'm going to be climbing (it's part of the selection process), but it also means a lot more than that.

So, if I had climbing at your crag that day, it may have been me you'd have heard saying that and you would (judging by your post) totally have misread me...

If people make fun of you or make you feel insecure, just tell them you are just warming up. 

Thanks Mom

Eric Fjellanger wrote: Counterpoint: skiers are a bunch of goddamn drunks, and runners have sticks up their butts

they're called "batons"

LOL WELCOME TO THE SUCK

What you're describing is the "Noob Expert" phenomenon (which is all too common in climbing and runs rampant at the Red) in which the the most experienced person within a group of novices automatically assumes the role of the wise climbing guru (regardless of their own relative noobishness), pontificating with impunity, asserting their newfound mastery of techniques and knowledge of gear to their captive pupils, and generally annoying the hell out of any more experienced climbers within earshot.  Fortunately, the longer you've been climbing and the more you see this type of thing happen, the more you realize that you've -definitely- been this person at some point or another.  The best course of action is usually to smile knowingly and go about your business.  And next time, go to Tennessee or West Virginia.

The red seems to have a bunch of those people that "talk to be heard by everyone but don't talk to anyone". If you're not a fan of that scene you should try checking out the New, don't think you'll regret it

Peter Foster wrote: See, you assume somebody belongs or doesn't belong based on how hard they climb. what "grades" they climb. But that's your SUBJECTIVE opinion! Personally I'd rather be at a crag with stoked, friendly, down to earth people with a genuine appreciation for the rock, the calm location in nature, and refreshing friendships formed through sharing a rope. Who cares if they're thrashing around on the warm-up all day, if they're nice people and they're stoked. If they're crushers but they're assholes, I would rather they weren't there.

nah, you missed my point. I agree with you completely.  I climb mostly with my wife, my partner and his girlfriend. My wife is a 5.11 climber and partners girl is maybe a 5.9 climber. I enjoy people who are "just happy to be there" waaaayy more.  My comment was referring to the people at the hangout spots talking shit about how hard they climb.

Franck Vee wrote:

Fully agree with that, well said.

But yes I hear you too. Groups of climber can be annoying attitude-wise. To me it's mostly a matter of hanging around attitudes you like and just letting what you don't like slide.

Although the other part of that I think is also to recognize that in at least some cases, things may not mean the same thing to different people. I've used the warm-up phrase or variations of it a couple of times when describing a climb. In fact I did that relatively often, because:

• As I'm getting older (and wiser) I pay more attention to warming up properly. It's so good I can't believe I was that dumb for that long about it. I truly care about that.
• That means that litteraly every day I climb, I'm going spend at least 2-3 climbs on what is warm-up difficulties (and climbing styles, ideally).
• To me a good warm-up is relatively sustained and even in difficulty, doesn't have dangerous moves (like super hard crimps, monos, fully extended shoulder moves, etc.). It should also be fairly long. It can be a good climb (read fun climb), but it doesn't have to be and it doesn't have to be memorable.
• So to me, if I say 'that's a good warmup' it's litterally what I'm trying to say. By definition it is easier than other stuff I'm going to be climbing (it's part of the selection process), but it also means a lot more than that.

So, if I had climbing at your crag that day, it may have been me you'd have heard saying that and you would (judging by your post) totally have misread me...

i somehow doubt that.  A few more details on the 'typical' scenario may clarify:

4-6 climbers walk up to a wall with the guidebook open and begin identifying which climbs are which. pointing to the climbs, the climber with the guidebook says "this one here is a 10b, this one is an 11b, that one is a 10d, and that one over there is the 12b."  A member of the group chimes in, "oh the 10b, lets do that one, its a good warm up for me." then proceeds to climb it bolt to bolt complaining about how the holds have too much chalk or the feet are too glassy, or some other excuse.

Ive heard/seen some version of this transaction 3-4 times in my 6 days at RRG in addition to other versions that are a different species.

Brian M wrote: The red seems to have a bunch of those people that "talk to be heard by everyone but don't talk to anyone". If you're not a fan of that scene you should try checking out the New, don't think you'll regret it

actually, we went to NRG both times we were down there.  First time was with my wife and we tried to stay a day ahead of the rain that was coming in.  Easter weekend I was with my partner and he is a former rafting guide so we took Easter Sunday to raft the Meadow in an inflatable raft we had with us. Holy Shit. My second time in a raft and I'm glad I made it out.

I had always been a little intimidated by the New hearing the grades were so much harder than the Red.  They are, and theres only bolts where bolts are needed instead of every 6 feet. but the climbs fit my style more (technical versus only pump) so I think I actually climbed better there.

Sent an 11c (my sister makes cluster bombs) with a one armed dyno in Bubba City (true actually). it was a good warm up for me.

I hate the phrase "this is a good warm up".  I don't even understand it.  How effective is a warm up then a cool down while belaying your partner on the warm up?  

Once I was contacted by a sport climber wanting to become a trad climber.  We agreed to meet for a climb.  At the last moment she redirected us to the local sport climbing crag her friends were climbing at.  The first thing out of her mouth after greeting was "this is a good warm up" and proceeded to climb with her friends.  I turned around and went home.

Seth Jones wrote:

People who tele are the best.

 What up Seth! Good to see ya but.. everyone knows snowboarding is the best.

 The shit climbers do make for good stories. Some dude tapped me on the shoulder while I was belaying last weekend to ask a question. It was right when the leader was clipping the rope into a draw. Don’t get upset just laugh.