What do all the abbreviations mean: 5.8 C1, 5.9 A0, 5.7 R

I'm trying to pick a route to climb, but I keep getting confused by the C1, A0, R abbreviations that follow the grade. Can someone please help? Thanks! - Scott

John Wilder wrote: C = clean aid, no pins. Number that follows is difficulty. 1 is easy, 4 is hard.

A = aid. Possible pins needed, depends on the route. Number means the same as clean aid.

R = run out. A good distance between pieces of protection. A fall could result in injury.

PG13 = good pro, spaced a bit.

R and PG13 sometimes have to do with the quality of gear instead of distance between placements.

5.8 C1 means that although it is an aid climb, there are mandatory free moves at the 5.8 level.

John Wilder wrote: C = clean aid, no pins. Number that follows is difficulty. 1 is easy, 4 is hard.

A = aid. Possible pins needed, depends on the route. Number means the same as clean aid.

What's the difference between clean and non clean aid? One you're hammering pins, the other you're just using cams and nuts?

Spencer Ringwood wrote: What's the difference between clean and non clean aid? One you're hammering pins, the other you're just using cams and nuts?

Yes. With the exception that clean aid can involve hand placed pins/beaks or using cam hooks on certain routes.

To add to your confusion, A0 typically involves just a bolt ladder.  As in, no you won't need a hammer to climb A0.  Sometimes you don't even need aiders (Just clip quickdraws and pull on those), sometimes you do.

If you dont know what they mean, good idea just to stay away from climbing it till you've had more experience/exposure to the sport. You'll pick up things through time and measure your abilities accordingly. I'll lead a 5.8 trad climb over a 5.6 R rated climb any day. 

A way to think about PG, R and X rated climbs is that a fall on a PG climb has a decent chance of resulting in a serious injury, on a R rated climb there is a good chance of injury and even death, and on an X climb a fall on some sections is likely to lead to an injury or death.  Of course, this applies to leading, and generally not top roping.

Matt Himmelstein wrote: A way to think about PG, R and X rated climbs is that a fall on a PG climb has a decent chance of resulting in a serious injury, on a R rated climb there is a good chance of injury and even death, and on an X climb a fall on some sections is likely to lead to an injury or death.  Of course, this applies to leading, and generally not top roping.

I could point you to some serious R rated Top Rope climbs.... just saying. 

Guy Keesee wrote:

I could point you to some serious R rated Top Rope climbs.... just saying. 

Please do. I think R rated top roping could be my new thing. 

lol

R rated top roping?

Questionable anchor (or belayer)?

The Russian roulette of climbing. 

Sounds like opening a book on " how to rock climb " is where you should start.

Ryan7crew wrote: To add to your confusion, A0 typically involves just a bolt ladder.  As in, no you won't need a hammer to climb A0.  Sometimes you don't even need aiders (Just clip quickdraws and pull on those), sometimes you do.

This is because a lot of older books (and even new ones that don't update ratings) don't distinguish between A and C. In some books, an A# could need a hammer or go clean. A bolt ladder should be a C0. Any guidebook that actually uses C grades shouldn't call a bolt ladder A0. 

John Wilder wrote: 

R = run out. A good distance between pieces of protection. A fall could result in injury.

PG13 = good pro, spaced a bit.

 In most parts, falling on an R rated route is going to result in injury, and possibly death depending on how lucky you are. A lot of the R rated moderates around the country are easy but massively runout in sections. Snake Dike would be an example. Easy, but fall on it and you're going to get 'really' messed up if not killed. PG13 is less serious, but still sometimes serious enough that a fall in the wrong area could result in serious injury. I've seen people fall on PG13 routes and break their back and spend a solid amount of time in the ICU. In my experience, if a route is something like 25' to the first placement, it would be PG13. Not super hard, but fall at 25' with no pro and you're definitely getting messed up for sure.

Alex James wrote:

This is because a lot of older books (and even new ones that don't update ratings) don't distinguish between A and C. In some books, an A# could need a hammer or go clean. A bolt ladder should be a C0. Any guidebook that actually uses C grades shouldn't call a bolt ladder A0. 

 I believe a bolt ladder is technically A0 because the bolts are left on the rock. In my mind C is only for when there's no hardware/scars left on the rock.

Guy Keesee wrote:

I could point you to some serious R rated Top Rope climbs.... just saying. 

Hence my use of the word "generally."  I would hazard that there are few true TR climbs that are PG or R, it is more that people TR routes with bolted anchors that set up wicked pendulums.

This is a troll

Nick Niebuhr wrote:

 I believe a bolt ladder is technically A0 because the bolts are left on the rock. In my mind C is only for when there's no hardware/scars left on the rock.

Most sources distinguish between A and C by whether you need a hammer to climb the route. On a bolt ladder you don't need a hammer so it is still clean 'C' aid. See https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/109368154/is-a-bolt-ladder-c0-or-a0

Alex James wrote:

Most sources distinguish between A and C by whether you need a hammer to climb the route. On a bolt ladder you don't need a hammer so it is still clean 'C' aid. See https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/109368154/is-a-bolt-ladder-c0-or-a0

Bolt ladders are always A0. I am not even sure C0 is even a real grade. I've never seen it in any guidebook, not even on the easiest of easy aid routes. All bolt ladders on every route I've ever climbed have been A0, even if they are bomber, brand new stainless steel bolts. Other than that, yes A usually means hammer and C does not. But that does not mean a pitch with an A designation cannot be climbed clean, it just typically adds a grade. So it would usually be something like A2/C3.

 The other thing to understand with aid grades is they always change with time. Kind of like how a very soft sandstone trade route will get harder with time as holds break off, aid routes will change with time as well. As people hammer on them, the cracks open up and allow for clean gear. As people leave more and more fixed gear on them, they can be climbed easier with an F designation (e.g. what was once A3 is now C2F). But they can also go the other direction as well. For example, that pitch that turned from A3 to C2F can go back to A3 if someone rips a bunch of the fixed gear out.

20 kN wrote:

Bolt ladders are always A0. There is no such thing as C0 anything. All bolt ladders on every route I've ever climbed have been A0, even if they are bomber, brand new stainless steel bolts. Other than that, yes A usually means hammer and C does not. But that does not mean a pitch with an A designation cannot be climbed clean, it just typically adds a grade. So it would usually be something like A2/C3.

uh...lets see first two routes you pull up on super topo call South Face of Washington Tower and Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome C1 and both have bolt ladders on them.... I agree with your point on A2/C3.... 

Also for examples of places that I've seen C0 grades: bolt ladder on pioneer route at Smith Rock https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105791058/pioneer-route also Direct East Buttress of SEWS http://www.supertopo.com/rock-climbing/Washington-Pass-South-Early-Winters-Spire-Direct-East-Buttress 

Alex James wrote:

uh...lets see first two routes you pull up on super topo call South Face of Washington Tower and Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome C1 and both have bolt ladders on them.... 

C1 is harder than A0 so it's appropriately graded C1. Anyway SFWC doesn't even have a full bolt ladder on it anyway (climbed it twice). The Kor Roof has a few bolts, but that's about it. If you want a real bolt ladder look up The Prow in your book. Tons of A0 bolt ladders on the route and it's graded V C2 5.6. If you want to see a A0 rating, look up Royal Arches. It's 5.6 A0 because there is a 5.10 move that is bypassed with a single fixed bolt via a fixed rope that you use to swing over. It doesent require any hammering of any type, but it's still rated A0 as you're french freeing. A0 is a general term for french free and/ or bolt ladders and neither require a hammer.

I mean I understand you perfectly well if you were to come up to me and say that there is a A0 move on the climb because you have to french free. It seems to me that the C designation should serve its intended purpose of hammer or not and therefore if there is no hammer required (ie bolt ladder) it should be some sort of C grade. There obviously is some dispute about that given there is a whole thread discussing it and also a mixed bag of climbs calling things C0 (see previous post) vs A0. I think we can just agree that whatever the aid grade is on a climb, it just needs some more research to determine what it actually contains as everyone has a slightly different view of what a certain grade means.