Sierra alpine planning help

We're planning a trip late August to the Sierras and I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on the permit system. Googling and past forum searching has not answered all my questions.

First, regarding Whitney zone: We applied for the lottery and were denied. We'll try again this Sunday when the mini sale happens, but if that doesn't work out, is there any way to get a permit for the Whitney zone to climb Russell? I read somewhere they do not hold any permits for walk up. Furthermore, how do you coordinate getting both an overnight permit to camp at Iceburg and a day use permit to climb the peak?

Second, regarding elsewhere like Incredible Hulk, Temple Crag, Mt Goode, Charolette Dome, etc: I've looked at rec.gov to reserve permits but everything is reserved in our time frame. Some random availability before or after, but how are so much of these already reserved? I read one place permits can be reserved up to a year in advance, another place said 6 months? Is walk up the only way to go? Do people still find mid week very likely for walk up permits?

Third question, what routes do you recommend for east side access, rated 5.8 or 5.9, and ideally overnight camping without swarms of people?

For everything BUT Whitney, the Inyo NF website has all your answers (minus Incredible Hulk; its in the Stanislaus NF) including how/when to get walk ins and the no show permits: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/passes-permits/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5144746

As long as it's not on a 3 day weekend, you can nab a walk in if you show up early the day before.

As for Iceberg to Whitney and out, I believe you'll want an OVERNIGHT permit for the North Fork Lone Pine Creek trailhead.  You'll spend your first night at iceberg then go up Whitney and then out. Day use permits is midnight to midnight i.e. One calndar day, no starting the day before at 10/11pm. Mt Russell is treated the same as Whitney due to proximity i.e. even if you're going up Russell and ignoring Whitney, you would still need the appropriate Whitney permit. 

normal Mt Russell access is N Fork not S Fork, therefore not covered by the Mt Whitney Lottery (so winning that would not have helped anyway).

Sounds like all the _reservable_ spots for N Fork for your desired dates have already been taken. So you have to go for same/previous day Permit when you're there in August. Which if more hopeful climbers/hikers show up than the number of non-reservable slots, means another informal lottery (drawing cards out of a hat). So arriving at the line three hours early doesn't help.

I've heard (confirming the post above) that mid-week your odds are pretty good. Even better if doing it car to car in a single day :-)

Ken

P.S. navigating the Recreation.gov wilderness reservation pages (esp for N Fork Lone Pine) is like passing a special "advanced test".

Permits are available on FS land six months in advance. 40% are reserved for walk-in and the other 60% are reservable (excluding Mt. Whitney).  You don't need separate permits to camp at Iceberg Lake and climb Whitney. One overnight permit for Iceberg will cover climbing and camping.

Read the website link Nick sent you above.

Except Whitney and Cathedral Peak, you will not find "swarms" of people almost anywhere in the backcountry. Avoid weekends and holidays.

It's tough.  This year, I tried two days in a row - spot on the hour - to reserve a trail permit to climb Russell in late July. Denied.

It was the first time I've tried for a permit around Whitney.  So I called a ranger to see if I was missing some critical step or piece of information.  Nope.  Reportedly, both days had a single person take all six reserve-able slots.

He suggested some (many?) start submitting requests only a little before the hour, and keep submitting until they are successful or it is clearly past the hour.  Given that, it is then just a matter of luck.  Not that this helps you now - but might help you feel better. :)

On the bright side, we got walk-in permits for Kearsarge last July - granted, probably not nearly as in demand as the Whitney area.  If going for walk ins and traveling from CO, good to have a backup plan of course.

I've never had a problem getting a Whitney Zone permit on a weekday by just showing up at the Lone Pine visitor center the day before.  There always seem to be cancellations.

Both Whitney Zone and the Temple Crag area are fairly popular.  You might try Twilight Pillar on Norman Clyde to get away from the crowds a bit.

Either reserve 6 months in advance, take a risk of getting a 400$ ticket for no permit (likely to get fined and NOT recommended), show up to the permit center early morning and wait in line (5am is when the lines get going usually), or do a car to car (recommend).

Also, something odd about whitney permits.  If you want to do a Car to car ascent of Whitney/Russell, you need a trail permit from the lottery.  However, if you do an overnighter at upper boy scout or iceberg, then you only need a normal 6-month ahead of time permit.  I believe this is the only area in the sierras where this condition is.

Mike Womack wrote:

If you want to do a Car to car ascent of Whitney/Russell, you need a trail permit from the lottery.

huh?
Whitney and Russell are two completely different peaks -- with possibly completely different approaches.
Why would we think the permit requirements should be the same?

Kenr, 

In order to get to fishhook arête, mithril dihedral, you have to use the mountaineer's trail to whitney up until iceberg and then break away, thus being in the "whitney zone".  It's that trail that requires a permit.  That's what I've read from the .gov site.  If someone knows I'm wrong, please correct me.  So, if you're doing east face of whitney C2C and a ranger catches you with no permit, you could always say you're doing Russell??  Anyone have experience with that?

kenr wrote:

huh?
Whitney and Russell are two completely different peaks -- with possibly completely different approaches.
Why would we think the permit requirements should be the same?

https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/inyo/recreation/hiking/recarea/?recid=20808&actid=51

"Day use permits for the Mt. Whitney Zone may be reserved in the Mt Whitney Lottery, apply between February 1 and March 15."

Car-to-car trips to either Whitney or Russell are in the Mt. Whitney Zone.

Overnight trips to either, require a North Fork of Lone Pine Creek Permit and is not subject to the lottery, but has a limited quota of 10 people per day.

It is confusing.

As Frank notes, day hikes up the North  Fork are now within the permit system.  Until a few years ago you obviously needed a permit if you were overnighting.  I suspect that as a result of all the use the area was receiving that they created a permit requirement for day use.  Bummer, but what you gonna do?

Also, as others have noted, despite the challenges of getting a permit reservation, you may get lucky showing up the day before. Last summer I took my kids backpacking midweek.  We showed up with the intent of getting Kearsarge Pass permits, but the ranger informed us that Whitney was available.  

Finally, there are a lot of other really nice peaks other than Russell and Whitney.  If you can't score a permit, you will find lots of other options that will leave you grinning. 

If you are beating your head against the wall trying to overcome the crowding on Mt. Whitney you are doing it for the wrong reasons, imo.

Take a hint and go climb something better and avoid the gumby shit show.

Seek and ye' shall find my brother.

"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings..."

--John Muir

David S wrote:

You have a great deal of experience!  Can you (or others) recommend to us a "Top 5" of spots that have similar infrastructure approaches (towns, roads, campsites -- i.e. no other tactical or equipment changes from going to Whitney or Temple Crag) and equally grin-inducing payoffs?  Of course, publicizing them here will not help them retain their desirable "gumby-free" character...  ;-)  Thanks!

The climbing routes on Whitney are not crowded; the problem is the difficulty in obtaining the limited permits.

Refer to the Supertopo High Sierra guidebook for numerous classics.

FrankPS wrote:

The climbing routes on Whitney are not crowded; the problem is the difficulty in obtaining the limited permits.

Refer to the Supertopo High Sierra guidebook for numerous classics.

"Not crowded" in the Front Range sense.  The Mountaineers Route, the traditional descent for the Whitney routes, is a shit show; bring a helmet. Worst case, if you're efficient on the hike and climb and/or willing to suffer a bit you can daytrip many of these routes.

I was at the daily permit lottery for Mt. Whitney on 4th of July weekend.  The ranger said they had WAY more permits available than people wanting them.  

Its "Sierra", if I may.

I've managed to get a walk in overnight permit for the N fork of Lone Pine Creek (the climber's approach) 4 separate times now, but always mid-week. 

They hold a daily lottery for the walk in permits.  I've always had to do this.  It's at 10 am or 11 am the day before you plan on hiking in, so not very convenient.  I think it's 11 am.   Make it a rest day.  The lottery includes everyone who wants a walk in permit, but 90%+ of people are going to want the hiking trail.  Even as the 15th or so person in the lottery, I've always managed to get permits for N Fork Lone Pine Creek.  Maybe my experience is an aberration though.  

All of the other places have walk-ins available.  Hulk area seems to be getting very crowded, especially on weekends.  If you're somewhat flexible and don't have a totally set agenda, you'll be fine.  .  

Charlotte Dome should be high on the list IMO.  Amazing rock.  Super high quality climb.  Very few people will do this in a day.  Definitely a backpack in for most folks.  Goode is a reasonable day trip, no need to backpack that one unless you want to. N arete of Bear Creek Spire is a fine route as well.  Also doable without overnight backpacking.  Even Temple Crag is a reasonable day trip if you're fit and you get an early start.

Thank you to the first seven posters for some useful information. I respectfully disagree that website has all the answers, otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

To King Tut, please read the original post before spouting worthless contributions. I have no intention of climbing Mt Whitney. Your high-and-mighty self inflation isn't welcome here.

To all, my third question has not been addressed (excluding sean o [edit: and mike mcl], thank you!): What moderate routes do you recommend for east side access? I'm not looking for your secret wall and I know there are lists of classics online, but I'm asking for personal recommendations from other human beings who have experienced such climbs. That's what a forum is about right?

Ima gonna take s.price's advice and just be kind. No need to get offended over nothing OP.

It has nothing to do with any self-aggrandizing on my part but an urging you to **do your own exploration** of the countless resources available to you including numerous published **real** guide books.

Something will jump out at you as a must do route. Unfortunately, 5.8-59 severely limits you to (relatively) non-technical routes in the Alpine with short sections of harder climbing.

But, if I were in the Whitney area I wouldn't miss Lone Pine Peak. Bastille Buttress is a classic but anything there is good. Totally reasonable at 5.9 A1 just take some extra small cams and dog/yard your way up it.

Then, consider Merriam Peak in Royce Lakes Basin. Again, climbable at a 5.9 standard with a hang or two on bomber gear.

Charlotte Dome, if you are coming from the East I can't believe you will have any trouble getting a permit day before departure, but otherwise go for it anyways. There is zero in the way of back country rangers in those parts. Virtually every permit holder will be a hiker rather than a climber. 

The route itself is not to be missed. There is not a finer long 5.8 on the planet.

Fact of the matter, is the point of my post that others got is that Whitney is a shit show and to be avoided when there are so many other classics with no permit hassles to deal with. The reason there is a hassle is warning enough to stay away for the experienced...besides, the craggin' in Whitney Portal is awesome too.

King Tut wrote:

Then go do Keeler Needle or even better go in to Angel Wings or Bubbs Creek Wall and stop bothering the internet for noob advice on where to go rock climbing.

According to Tut, anyone that disagrees with him is a gumby or a noob. And for God's sake, don't use lockers or cordalettes!