The ETHICS of Training.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

Careful Frank, he's not backing down.

What happens when an unstoppable force hits an immovable object?

FrankPS wrote:

What happens when an unstoppable force hits an immovable object?

No one has ever trained hard enough to find out

You may not be backing down, but you will be standing there yelling into the wind as the climbing world passes you by. 

Anyway, why do you care so much what other people do? How does it affect you? What changes in your life because people train? 

Lol, it's like watching lemmings go over the cliff.

Yeah - and there are so many videos and articles about technique, too. It's completely unfair - back in the days, we had to re-invent the backstep  before we could even think about breaking into 10s. Nows you can just google it and see some dude do it for you.

Anyone using Google with regards to climbing is also cheating....

Is this the Luddites revisited or what?

Lol....and this is the kind of quality content for which I keep my MP account.  Top kek OP, top kek my dude!!

What is training? Is climbing in a gym 3-4 times a week training?

What most people do in the gym for fun just climbing is training harder than what people used to do back in the day. It isn't really training these days because technology and the existence of gyms didn't always exist... having 30+ V4 problems and 30+ 5.10+ routes in a gym that are getting changed every few months to climb for fun is insane training compared to what a handful of people did to climb hard back in the day.

All you really need to do is be in decent shape and go to a gym once a week and you should be able to climb 5.11+

I hate to use a cheesy movie quote, but "it is a game that cannot be won, it can only be played." So therefore there can be no cheating. 

Now having said that, those old guys probably needed wheelbarrows to haul their nads to the base of the wall. Not many people like that around nowadays. I'm more impressed by the guy who did the 5.6 in leather boots 100 years ago than the 13 year old at the gym that can crush 12s. Natural progression though, no hard feelings

I find the most impressive climbers the ones who bolted on lead without even knowing if there was a stance to bolt from. Crazy climbing 50+ ft not knowing what the grade is or if you would have to free solo it or if you would be able to put protection in.

ViperScale . wrote:

I find the most impressive climbers the ones who bolted on lead without even knowing if there was a stance to bolt from. Crazy climbing 50+ ft not knowing what the grade is or if you would have to free solo it or if you would be able to put protection in.

...or if your 1/4" hand drill bit would break after a 50' runout.  That happened to one of the original hardmen that developed Enchanted Rock.  Luckily he happened to have a 3/8" bit on him which took 45 min to drill a hole with compared to the 30 min with the 1/4".  This was on a 5.12 slab climb IIRC.

I don't get it.

Cross posting from the”what annoys you about your local gym” thread:

I wish my gym would stop letting people lower off the anchors, wears out the gear much faster than rapping off. And if you don’t have the skills and self reliance to rap then maybe you shouldn’t be TRing in the gym to begin with...

We argue the ethics of letting slower parties pass. Yet we won't argue the ethics of setting boulder problems that were made by manufacturers to mimic an outdoor problem. If I climb one of those inside can I claim an ascent by your standards?

Dan Austin wrote:

Cross posting from the”what annoys you about your local gym” thread:

I wish my gym would stop letting people lower off the anchors, wears out the gear much faster than rapping off. And if you don’t have the skills and self reliance to rap then maybe you shouldn’t be TRing in the gym to begin with...

My gym just uses those giant pipes for TR only stuff.  I don't like them though because the have so much friction when lowering.  I swear one of these days we are going to have an accident outside from someone who has only belayed on one of those things thinking they have to crank open their device to lower someone and they just drop their climber.

Attention Mark Dixon and Vipers: We argue the ethics of letting slower parties pass. Yet we won't argue the ethics of setting boulder problems that were made by manufacturers to mimic an outdoor problem. If I climb one of those inside can I claim an ascent by your standards?

long lost lawrence wrote:

I hate to use a cheesy movie quote, but "it is a game that cannot be won, it can only be played." So therefore there can be no cheating. 

Now having said that, those old guys probably needed wheelbarrows to haul their nads to the base of the wall. Not many people like that around nowadays. I'm more impressed by the guy who did the 5.6 in leather boots 100 years ago than the 13 year old at the gym that can crush 12s. Natural progression though, no hard feelings

Lol.....we were young back then. We just walked....we need the wheelbarrow now..... ;)

Dean-o! N wrote:

Attention Mark Dixon and Vipers: We argue the ethics of letting slower parties pass. Yet we won't argue the ethics of setting boulder problems that were made by manufacturers to mimic an outdoor problem. If I climb one of those inside can I claim an ascent by your standards?

^ A literal cry for attention. Amazing.

Around New York back in the 1960s, before hardly any Americans knew how to effectively train for climbing and/or thought that training was "un-cool" . . .

many of the most exciting First Free Ascents of routes was done by people who did gymnastics.

So they did not "cheat" by training for climbing. Instead they trained for gymnastics -- which turned out to be rather useful for getting up the new hard routes on the local style of rock in driving range of New York City.

Ken

P.S. How about just start a blog or forum focused on Untrained climbing ascents. Read and applaud each others' Untrained climbing achievenments. Celebrate your new climbing Game.

My question remains unanswered. Cowards.